screwlisp

It's Sunday morning in Europe! #archive 8UTC Sunday as always #lispyGopherClimate #podcast since 2022.

https://toobnix.org/w/pU6zu95YDdyGKqsxxRf3Vg #peertube live

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@vnikolov 's Quality Without A Name toot #AI

As much as I can remember about the #lisp community #architecture and Christopher Alexander https://www.dreamsongs.com/Files/PatternsOfSoftware.pdf https://alexandria.common-lisp.dev/

My NicCLIM #IDE demo and the #DL book I am #writing - loose bibliography and sketch of chapters

#AI #softwareEngineering

Jun 7 at 7:49amWeb
Show threadscrewlispJun 7
@vnikolov 's toot: https://ieji.de/@vnikolov/116696515473286419
Vassil Nikolov | Васил Николов (@[email protected])

Remember the Quality without a Name? Off topic though it may be here. #TheTimelessWayOfBuilding

ieji.de
Show threadVassil Nikolov | Васил НиколовJun 7

Nice picture!

Is this an M-1 rifle?
(Garrand?)

@screwlisp

Show threadscrewlispJun 7
@vnikolov @prahou I don't personally know anything about art (I just know what I like).
Show threadTomášJun 7
@vnikolov @screwlisp it's a jailbroken pre-Gunpowder Crisis semi-sentient MilTek battle rifle companion, 7.62×51mm UCSEAA.
Show threadSteven G. HarmsJun 7
@screwlisp @vnikolov
Show threadscrewlispJun 7

@sgharms @vnikolov

rpg's book.

https://www.dreamsongs.com/Files/PatternsOfSoftware.pdf ( cc / nc )

Show threadscrewlispJun 7

@sgharms @vnikolov

@cdegroot I also forgot to mention that you knew Christopher Alexander.

https://berksoft.ca/gol/

The Genius Of Lisp

Show threadCees de GrootJun 11
@screwlisp @sgharms @vnikolov the only book you cannot borrow from my collection is the one that he signed :-). But, to clarify, we only spend a couple of weekends working on some code (in Smalltalk) to see whether we could automate some of his ideas (we failed). He was a wonderful host, great company, I still remember us watching Koyaanisqatsi in the evening; and this first volume of the Nature of Order plus the rest he sent me as they got published are among my favorite books. I will get back at trying out these ideas we had, now that the computing power is there (it's my planned retirement project).
Show threadscrewlispJun 12
@cdegroot
Treasures beyond treasures!
@sgharms @vnikolov
Show thread'(vidak) _(:3」∠)_Jun 7
@screwlisp @vnikolov amazing podcast art from @prahou as usual
Show threadVassil Nikolov | Васил НиколовJun 7

A Good Episode.
Well worth listening to.
Needless to add, the mentioned books are well worth reading.
<highest-praise/>More than once.

By the way, yet another related _big_ question (I think open) is the following.
(Improvised; very briefly.)
Consider that comprehending texts in natural language is for intelligent agents.
Executing algorithms is for non-intelligent agents.
What _exactly_ does it take to bridge the gap between texts in natural language and algorithms?

***

For the bonus track, a US military cartoon from the Second World War.

@screwlisp

Show threadDigital Mark λ ☕️ 8647Jun 8

@screwlisp @vnikolov So I got into "real software" (paid by corpos) just at the time Design Patterns was getting big. Before, there was a LOT of ad-hoc reimplementation of stuff like iterators, databases/"singletons", command/undo, & so on, just all over the place.

After, at least everyone copied one working set of patterns, even if they didn't understand them. Java incorporated a lot.

…

Show threadDigital Mark λ ☕️ 8647Jun 8

@screwlisp @vnikolov
…
Not many people got the point that you should be finding your own cut-corner paths, watch how people use a thing, see the thing you do over & over, codify that in documents or architecture.

Design Patterns became a bible, not a workbook.

It's still a really good workbook, if you know "don't copy these, learn how we made them", but 99% of coders weren't learning anything, then or now.
#designPatterns

Show threadscrewlispJun 8
@mdhughes
Yeah, as I half-noted I think I was clearly too critical of the book. I would say its success accurately reflects the software engineering interest in Alexander's pattern language, which was essentially a learning experience, which as he noted, they basically made a working version of many decades later that was very different.
@vnikolov
Show threadscrewlispJun 8

@mdhughes
As he noted about one of his pattern language experiences - he got a contract with a Mexican government project such that rentbound families would use his pattern language to each design themselves their own house, and the Mexican government would then build them.

He notes that the families just loved the houses they designed themselves to pieces, but speaking as an architect, the pattern language houses all had powerful front-door-faces-a-lavatory energy.
@vnikolov

Show threadVassil Nikolov | Васил НиколовJun 8

I think I read, once upon a time, maybe twenty or twenty-five years ago, a kind of a ha-ha-only-serious summary.
As I recall, it went roughly like this:

Alexander wrote one thing about patterns.
Inspired by that, Gabriel wrote another thing, to Alexander's pleasant surprise.
Inspired by _that_, the Four Authors wrote a third thing, to Gabriel's unpleasant surprise...

Just a story.

@screwlisp @mdhughes

Show threadscrewlispJun 8
@vnikolov
I guess the future of pattern languages is ours to make what we will of it as well.
@mdhughes
Show threadDigital Mark λ ☕️ 8647Jun 8

@vnikolov @screwlisp Gabriel's opinion on GOF (Gang of Four, Design Patterns) wasn't widely noticed/concerned in Java or C++ communities.

Tom DeMarco's praise for it was pretty much a guaranteed buy-in from any manager, you could at least try to do good software because of it.