*gently grabs the cheeks of all programmers to stare deeply into their eyes*

All I want is a dry tech manual. A boring, well indexed manual that defines every function. Not a chatbot. Not a training. Not a million "articles" that I have to search through. Not a "community forum".

My rice cooker came with one. I want one for every piece of software I have to interact with.

Go get yourself a technical writer if necessary.

I. Want. An. Instructional. Manual.

@CorvidCrone I miss the time when software came with manuals fit for knocking out your manager in case he gave you shit for still reading through the War-and-Peace-sized manual

@dequbed

The good old days 🥲

@drwho @CorvidCrone honestly, the software was also pretty damn shite. I'm certainly not missing the quality of the software itself, but I am missing the quality of documentation that was generally expected.
@dequbed @CorvidCrone WordPerfect, Word, Turbo IDE, and, hell, EDIT.COM had their flaws, but they also were miles more usable and less troublesome than most user software these days.
@drwho @CorvidCrone maybe, I never used most of those too much. But old CAD and CAM software was *bad*. Simulation / scientific software even more so. Sure if your previous standard was batch processed hand punched FORTRAN they were all usable but a lot of companies really showed that they were trying out these newfangled GUIs for the first time and spend all their money on the shiny interface and none on fixing bugs.
@dequbed @CorvidCrone I remember when all tech manuals, and really, it was all of them, had an ASCII chart in the appendices
@dequbed @CorvidCrone

I remember the first time I went to my university's Sun lab and, just inside the door, was a set of abutting desks holding a long row of binders containing
all of the Sun documentation. Ran into similar, after college, at a few customer-sites (the one I remember most was a large bank that was running lots of IBM Power 4 AIX systems). Yeah, there were the only man pages, but some people still preferred paper at the time. This was also well before Google existed and the only resources you had outside of the man-pages was the comp.* Usenet groups and maybe a lucky WAIS or Gopher hit.

Given my temperment, it's surprising it never occurred to me that those binders might be useful as bludgeons to be used on PHBs.

@dequbed @CorvidCrone Story time!

When I started a new job in the IT department of my company, I got sent for a week of training in the US. I got back with a brain full of new information and skills.

A few weeks later, I arrive at my desk, and someone is apparently using it for storage -- there are a dozen extremely heavy boxes, on my desk, on my filing cabinet, on the floor...

My mentor stops by, says "Oh, good. You got the manuals I ordered."

AIX, DB2, ADSM, CMOD, and others...

When I asked where I was supposed to put them, and how I was supposed to organize them, he said "Oh, I think they're already indexed by weight."

I actually read them. All of them.

@dequbed @CorvidCrone Microsoft C 7 (IIRC) came in a box a couple of feet long filled with books (a complete set of documentation for Windows development). And a few floppy disks tacked on at the end.

@CorvidCrone

With an overview, a functional description, and examples.

@zl2tod @CorvidCrone Best I can do is a video 🤮
@CorvidCrone Reasonable request but not easy to realize I guess. Hardware? Yes. Software? No. It's too prone to updates and bug fixes
@Kay @CorvidCrone
you can update a PDF
you can update an ebook
@antimu0n @Kay @CorvidCrone Those have largely been replaced with thousands of shitty articles in knowledge bases running on Atlassian or Salesforce.
@Kay @CorvidCrone If bug fixes break functionality in a way that makes a rewrite of the instructional manual necessary, that's not ideal. Actually for updates that's hardly ideal either.
Also if you introduce new features along the way, why wouldn't you write instructions on how to actually use those?

@CorvidCrone That's something I loved about DEC their manuals were actually helpful! Further they wrote in depth about each piece of hardware from the customer's POV and published it, freely giving copies to customers, and potential customers.

People learned what DEC hardware/software could do. Today people ask an AI to do "something.

If you want to be useful you have to know what is happening and how it's being done.

@apples_and_pears @CorvidCrone dec manuals did come with the risk of the wall of documentation falling on you ;) @majenko @baljemmett
@chloeraccoon @apples_and_pears @CorvidCrone @baljemmett You need DEC document EK-W4LLS-UG - How to extract human from document collapse
@majenko @apples_and_pears @CorvidCrone @baljemmett Don't forget the 600 page binder... "How to locate and deal with bugs" ;)
@chloeraccoon @majenko @CorvidCrone @baljemmett Documentation can be overdone. It's more likely to be underdone and scattered here there and somewhere - if I could only remember where.
@apples_and_pears @majenko @CorvidCrone @baljemmett Majenko had the classic one of those issues a few months ago. Looking up how to do something he was sure he had done before, and found a post telling him what to do. Written by Majenko... ;)
@apples_and_pears @CorvidCrone

While I'm old and used some old DEC gear (VAXen) during my college years, I was mostly spared having to work with their kit once I got out into the real world. For me, the best documentation was produced by VERITAS (especially before Symantec got their clutches on them). It was good enough that, as a systems administator, the only time I had to call the vendor for support was if something had legitimately broken. As a consultant, it was good enough that if my partner-coordinator (employer at the time was a "platinum" third-party consulting-partner to Veritas, StorageTek, Sun, VMware and a few others) emailed me asking, "do you know <PRODUCT> well enough to go on a gig, next week, to do <PROJECT_REQS>," I could say "yes", even if "yes" meant spending a flight or an Acela-ride poring over documentation to spin up on a project I'd never touched. Of all our partners, VERITAS was about the only one I felt fully comfortable doing that for.

Honestly, their documentation was such that I never really understood why VERITAS customers were spending $750/hr + expenses for consulting-services, but, "whatevs: not my money".
@CorvidCrone not a bloody video. Honestly the UNIX man pages had the correct paradigm.
@chrisgerhard @CorvidCrone A video can be a useful addition for some people to better understand something, but this should be always in this order: 1. Good manual, 2. Good tutorials, 3. something and anything else. (Those should also be up to date with possible older versions available too, if feasible, in my honest opinion.)
@chrisgerhard @CorvidCrone this, plus the very nice info pages for more structured details. Preferably read in #emacs, but there are plenty alternatives.

@CorvidCrone

<long indrawn breath> ooh sibling in science, I don't believe I've seen one of those in a very long time, possibly not since the summer of, hmmm, maybe '93

I miss them, too.

@CorvidCrone not only this, but I want that manual to accurately describe the actual interface (UI or API) that your software presents.

Google GCP team, looking at you, you collection of malicious monkeys. Your documentation is *always* inaccurate. I always have to write a test iteration to discover what the permission scopes *really* are, and what actions they *really* allow. I have learned to never trust your docs, and it’s painful.

@GentlemanTech @CorvidCrone AWS and Cisco, also.
@drwho @GentlemanTech @CorvidCrone AWS IAM docs are a trash fire. Half the examples just shrug and use wildcards. String matching, for access control primitives, because not even the insiders have accurate reference documentation.
@CorvidCrone If you can't describe how to do something with text and have to resort to video links that might disappear in a couple of years, then you've made whatever it is *far* too difficult. No goddamned video tutorials that can't be easily referenced.
@CorvidCrone DaVinci Resolve comes with a four thousand page manual
@CorvidCrone just give me a few comments in the header file, that's all I want!
@CorvidCrone Ardour has a 119 chapter manual and it's so peak ​:ablobfoxhyperowo:​
@markix @CorvidCrone would love to know what ablobfoxhyperowo renders as.
@stib @CorvidCrone add a shake effect and you get the idea

@CorvidCrone

Testify!

The two best tech manuals I can think of were the service docs for the BBC micro and the Philips KT3 television chassis.

Modulo the early O'Reilly books, Droms & Lemon, and perhaps the Continuous Delivery book, everything else has been a bit awful.

@JuliaRez @CorvidCrone
BBC Micro docs in general were superb. Partly what inspired me to become a Tech Author.

##bbcmicro #techwriting

@jeffbronks

@CorvidCrone

Right? It's been a bit of a while, but you could read the (quite thin) service book, and feel like you could design a reasonable 6502 system on the back of an envelope _and_ be confident that you could fix all the common faults you'd come across.

Books like that should be inspiring rather than distressing. 'I've suffered, and I'm writing this so you don't have to' over 'I've suffered, and now you must, too'.

@JuliaRez @CorvidCrone
Yeah. The long version of my reply is "... to become a hardware engineer and then a tech author". The Beeb was the perfect blend of both.
@CorvidCrone Do you need a Linux distro? https://mxlinux.org/manuals/
Users Manual – MX Linux

@jandi

This is the second Linux distro I've been offered.

Why? How does that address the issue of software I must use for work not having a tech manual?

@CorvidCrone Sorry, thought it was more general and happen to be very grateful to my distro's manual.

@CorvidCrone Can I add one more qualifier please?

I want it to be accurate!

I can't start to count the number of "fully documented" APIs that I've dealt with where I end up sending in corrections because the documentation is missing critical information

@CorvidCrone @ahto If you need help just join the discord. Idk what the prob is.

@Furball @CorvidCrone @ahto
I hope that's ironic.

Discord is an unindexed hole where information gleaned by the communities the company offloaded support responsibilities on to goes to die. I am less likely to use a product or service if yhe only way you find out about it is the discord.
Haxe, a programming language i love is abouttyo release version 5. I can't find any information about the release because all announcements, changelogs and info are inside their discord. Might as well put it on facebook.

@bloognoo @Furball @ahto

I am approximately 30 to 40 years old. I remember Myspace. Discord is a black hole to me.

@CorvidCrone
Once upon a time I worked for a European electronics company. My bit was a specific area of medical software. They employed a team of technical writers for the user manuals. I didn't appreciate at first just how good the manuals were until I was training a physician with whom I had no common language. In the manual, Chapter 8, section 33.5.8 was exactly the same point in the workflow, explaining the objective of what I wanted to demonstrate.
And the index was an absolute joy to use.

They've probably moved on to using an LLM to write them now 😬

@Fragarach @CorvidCrone

I had the great good fortune to have a hand in composing the manual for UNICOS, the variant of UNIX used on Cray computers, back in the day.

That experience informs •every• bit of writing I've done since, especially on the web.

@Fragarach @CorvidCrone
Yes! A well authored index is much more that a printed replacement for search. It rewards browsing as much as lookup.

One full pass through a good index give you an idea of what a book/paper contains and confidence that you can go back to the index to refresh your memory.

It can even be funny — like Kimbote’s index to ‘Pale Fire’

This seems ok:
https://www.litcharts.com/lit/pale-fire/the-index

LitCharts

LitCharts
@CorvidCrone
You won't get it because the KPI counts SLOC not SLOD and tech writes are an overhead that does not raise the SLOC count.
@Steveg58 that's a lot of acronyms I don't know

@CorvidCrone

Sorry,
Key Performance Indicator. Some calculated or measured number that is used to determine if an individual or department is performing well. Usually chosen for convenience to the measuring body not for actual relevance to the end result. Promotion and bonuses are often tied to KPI measures.
Source Lines Of Code. A very crude measure of programmer output but often used for KPIs. Ignores comments and is hard to calculate automatically. Poor code often generates higher SLOC counts than good code. Does not measure how well the code is explained by comments and documentation.
Source Lines Of Documentation. An unused crude, parallel measure of the amount of documentation attached to a software product.

@CorvidCrone that would mean the software would have to be correct, and they couldnt' constantly change everything.
@CorvidCrone there’s a great youtube video I saw yester— NO