@2legged

Er, seven members of the HoL scuppered it. In fact, we 'luvvies' (although I lived my first nineteen years on a rough Council estate) can easily go to Dignitas (although we prejudice any one who assists us. I already subscribe with my 80 euros p.a.). It will be the poor consigned to shitty 'care' homes monopolized by private equity who will suffer and those people with MND who wish to die but can't make Dignitas. As for palliative care, good luck with that as the NHS crashes - an impossible promise. The chance has gone for a dignified end of life for most.

@2legged @linuxgnome

The bill requires both independent assessing doctors receive specific training to recognise coercion during their patient assessment. Plus it made coercion in this context a criminal act. The multidisciplinary panel tasked with vetting the patient's application and doctors approval would also be looking for signs of coercion, before they allow it to proceed.

So a lot of thought and attention has been put into this.

@mackaj @2legged

She supports the principle of the right to die, but cannot conceive that any safeguards will be adequate. Therefore you must commit suicide on your own.

Sigh. @linuxgnome I am open to the tgeoretucal5 posdibility that adequate safeguards may devised, tho I don't see how.

I note how your attempt at pejorative framing wholly omits any expression of concern for vulnerable people who object to the risk they face of being coerced into a premature death.

Not a squeak on it.

But if #Euthanasia is not legalised, people will still have the option to commit suicide, as they always have had. Victims of coercion have no alternative.

@mackaj

@2legged @mackaj

The option to commit suicide is not just a self-regarding action. It traumatises others - train drivers, car drivers, those who find the body unexpectedly. Some are not capable of committing suicide - the wheelchair-bound MND sufferer. Personally, I believe that sufficient safeguards were included in the bill and that extensive consultation had been achieved. What the small nexus in the Lords has produced is counter-productive - there is a backlash which could have been avoided.

@linuxgnome Of course suicide has downsides. That's why I would prefer that assisted dying should be available IF safeguards are adequate.

No assisted dying does not mean no alternatives.But inadequate safeguards DOES mean no alternative to dewth.

I note how you assert YOUR belief about safeguards. YOUR belief.

You still don't even dismiss the voices of he disabled people who need safeguards. You repeatedly ignore disabled voices. Your "belief" trumps their voices and their lives.

@mackaj

@2legged @mackaj

The HoC believed there were adequate safeguards as did many in the Lords. I have DD for Scope and Marie Curie and have collected over weeks for Marie Curie. My dad died over two long years of lung cancer. My family received no palliative care or visits. He could have died with dignity. I am now seriously considering removing support from both those organizations and increasing my DD for YMCAHousing for young people. Disabled voices include those with MND and other illnesses who wish to die - their voices are not represented by the organizations and the Lords, some of whom are just obstructive because they are simply opposed to the right to die.

@linuxgnome @mackaj Again, you continue to dismiss the voices of disabled people.

I am sure that your direct debit are very helpful, but a few quid a month doesn't seem to me to give a single penny's worth of right to ignore voices of marginalised people who experience coercion and fear for their lives.

As to Commons's votes, that's an assembly where ⅓ of votes got ⅔ of seats, and those ⅔ of seat-holders were filtered by Mandelson. The Commons is a corrupt anti-democracy.

@2legged @mackaj

No, I represent the voices of those people with physical and mental disabilities who wish to die. The organizations ignore them.
'A few quid a month' - bollocks - more than 10% of my income goes to various charities and I am a pensioner.
Oh, so the seven peers in the HoL are democracy?

@2legged @mackaj

BTW, my dad was bedridden for two years so that he couldn't avail himself of your solution of suicide - and that's not an unusual situation.

@linuxgnome Yes, suicide is a difficult or impossible option for many people. That's one of the reasons why assisted dying is a desirable goal.

But the problem with the advocates of assisted dying it is that so many of them are, like you, so fixated on that goal 5hat the very realcincerns of disabled people are dismissed,. Your self-appointmrnt is really not a good look, not at all.

@mackaj

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@linuxgnome Having watched up close how coercion is exercised within families and medical systems, I am convinced that protecting against it would be very difficult snd hence very expensive. House prices and care costs are now so high that even modest families have hundreds of thousands at stake. The incentives for killing are now huge.

@mackaj

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