Is #mastodon becoming an echo chamber? This post from @carnage4life has me questioning our community. The Mastodon team is finally getting some traction, the product improvements are increasing, The #UX is improving, yet people posting on multiple platforms are making comments like this. It's confusing.
I *know* people here don't want this to be a classic social media-clone but we'd *like* journalists to be here right? They aren't coming with examples like this!
As this conversation is spiraling a bit I want to make a few things clear:
1. I'd like Mastodon to be MORE inclusive and bring in more voices
2. Some people don't seem to want that
3. This is core problem to solve: How do we let more in, but not "pollute" your feed?
4. The solution is NOT "gatekeeping", revelling in the fact that AI journalists aren't welcome
5. This is the same reason we lost "Black Twitter" when it came over in 2022
Yes, a lot of you don't want AI posts in your feed (or pick any other topic) but the solution isn't to keep "AI People" from joining Mastodon, any more than it is keeping marginalized communities off of Mastodon.
@Gargron That is a personal choice and one which I totally respect. But I do think Mastodon should be big enough, and open enough, to allow an "AI community" to form, even thrive.
Too many people in my replies don't seem to agree with that.
There's "communities" for nearly everything on the #Fediverse. It is a strange misconception that a server software like Mastodon was something like a centralized #server #instance that was required to "allow" for anything, or could "prohibit" it, for everybody.
On the Fediverse, your server instance can allow or prohibit anything, just like any other instance. When your topic is hated on most other instances, there might be good reasons for that, though.
Still you can even run your very own instance fully dedicated to ShittyTopic™. It's just that nobody is obliged to listen to you, or to say friendly things about it, or to never block your instance.
"It's just that nobody is obliged to listen to you"
I think it would be great if we could all agree on this.
Don't like someone? Block them. Don't like a community? Block their server.
It's when people try to actively police members of other communities they don't belong to when things turn nasty.
I think this is something moderators need to clamp down on.
Thank you! That's exactly was the point I was trying to make. But clearly the delivery got in the way of the message.
I'm afraid we can't agree on the single item only that you are cherrypicking here.
If you feel "policed", your own argument applies: block them, or block their server.
>If you feel "policed", your own argument applies: block them, or block their server.
Yeah, we definitely seem to disagree. Mind you, I have not encountered this problem directly, but being constantly told how to post by complete strangers on servers I haven't even heard of doesn't sound like a fun experience.
Yeah, maybe I will block one or two people, but I can see how that can get tiring, and people just end up leaving.
I just don't think everything requires a response. People might just think a bit too highly about their opinions on here.
I believe you have nailed it:
»Yeah, maybe I will block one or two people, but I can see how that can get tiring, and people just end up leaving.«
That's precisely why your "you can block them" is useless "advice". It is a pity that you only realized that once your own advice was mirrored back to you.
We have to agree to disagree here, I agree.
You are equating two different things.
Scenario 1: I don't want to see person A, I will block them. They will never know I exist. I will likewise block person B, person C, heck, let me block this whole server.
But I don't have to even block anyone, I can just mind my own business.
Scenario 2: I am being told I am not posting the right way by person A. I will block them. Now by person B. I can block them too. Why are all these strangers talking to me? Why can't they mind their own business? I guess I'll just leave.
@katzenberger Or to put it differently, nobody is actively driving you away if they post about topics you are not interested in and/or in ways you don't agree with.
But by jumping into a complete stranger's mentions, you are, in fact, showing the toxic side of the fediverse and actively driving people away. Some cheer on this as a good thing. That's gatekeeping.
@stefan @katzenberger @Gargron
This is the curse of the fediverse but hey, "You can always spin up your own instance if you don't like it!" ;-P
"You can always spin up your own instance"
But that doesn't solve the problem, because people in your mentions criticizing you don't care about the rules of your community, they will either try to enforce rules of their own community, or what they see as rules governing all of the fediverse.
The only solution I can think of that I mentioned earlier is that non-moderators should not moderate non-members of their community. They can report, block, move on.
Just in case I left that unclear: I do not mind in the slightest "jumping into a complete stranger's mentions" if posts of that stranger transport their fascism, pedophilia, misogyny, "AI" promotion into my timeline, the timeline of a complete stranger either..
And if that makes me a "gatekeeper": I happily accept that slur as a badge of honor.
Really not sure why you're arguing against points nobody made, but I already addressed that in a separate thread.
I believe you may wish to have a look at the post that started this thread, especially the screenshot.
I did, it's just some dude comparing responses to him talking about "tech news, AI, and politics". Not sure how we got to discussing "fascism, pedophilia, misogyny".
Pretty huge jump.
You're cherrypicking again.
My sequence was:
fascism, pedophilia, misogyny, promotion of "AI".
I feel like we might be having trouble staying on topic, and I apologize if I am contributing to that.
Going back to my own first message in this thread, I argued that if you see a post about a topic you don't care about, you don't have to engage with it.
If it's something that actually breaks the rules of your community, you can report it.
You said:
"It's just that nobody is obliged to listen to you"
And that is fair! If we could just ignore each other, the world would already be a much better place.
But does everything require a response? This seems to be where we mainly disagree.
You want to tell a nazi off? Yeah, sure, I guess. Still good to report them.
@katzenberger Telling someone that their vibe coded calculator app got your friend fired...I mean if it actually did, I get it's personal.
But it just sounds like you're venting to a complete stranger.
And like you said, nobody has to listen to you. So why @ them then?
No raindrop ever wants to be guilty of the flood, yes.
Tell me an "argument" in this vein that I haven't heard before. This one wasn't it.
No, really, I do want to hear your answer.
Why does some rando talking about their vibecoded app need to hear what you personally think about AI? What are you trying to achieve? How effective is it?
What makes you feel so dearly about randos promoting fascism, misogyny, pedophilia, or "AI" that you care so deeply for them being left alone?
Insisting they need to be able to post how joining in made their life so much fun, with everybody else having to stay silent, because they're just "randos"? What are you trying to achieve by that?
@katzenberger I can see you are not interested in having a serious conversation, and that's fine.
Enjoy the rest of your day.
Really? I'm asking for 'more inclusiveness' as a general rule and you're saying I'm promoting fascism, misogyny, pedophilia?
I'm literally asking for us be nicer to each other and you're doing this?
you're saying I'm promoting fascism, misogyny, pedophilia?
Would you please point me to where I said that about you?
If you can't, take a cold shower now, I guess it's about time.
Here, here is the quote:
"What makes you feel so dearly about randos promoting fascism, misogyny, pedophilia"
That was directed at @stefan
You can see in all of my posts that I put the handle of the person I am talking to at the top, and everybody else's handle who is still in the thread at the bottom, in the "CC" position.
I've been keeping it like this for years now, and I wish more people made that a habit.
You can separate those "scenarios" if you are privileged enough, yes.
If fascism or transmisia doesn't come after you, you can simply file people praising them inder "I don't want to see them", and happily block them, pretending they don't exist (for you).
If "AI" didn't get you or your friends fired, and you're sure that you will die well before it has ruined the planet, the sciences, knowledge transfer, the arts, and any craft: you can simply file people promoting "AI" under "I don't want to see them", pretending they don't exist.
I for one am happy when promoters of such ideologies are feeling "policed" on the Fediverse, and feel inclined to leave. The more of them, the better.
Sure, if you see someone spreading hateful ideologies, have at them, no issues on my end. We need to root that stuff out from everywhere, not just social media. But this was not the topic here.
Attacking individuals who are vibecoding todo list apps one by one is going to do nothing to save the environment and help the working class. People will just stop posting about it here. And maybe that's all you care about, you just don't want to see AI discussed.
Or maybe you do more. Maybe you call your representatives and lobby for stronger environmental laws and laws protecting workers. If that's you, kudos!
Scott Jenson
Eugen Rochko
katzenberger
Stefan Bohacek