Aral Balkan
John Ulrik@aral If you asked German men of that age, I’d be surprised if even one in tens of thousands knew this.
Reiner Jung 🇬🇱 🇺🇦 🇪🇺@ujay68 @aral the law was enacted in January, but the media only started to report it a couple of days ago. No one has read the new law. I doubt that in parliament many have read it. Some claim that it is in violation of EU law, but I am not really sure.
What we need is a man between 17 and 45 who wants to leave the country for more than 3 months, for example a student.
Infoseepage@Infoseepage @prefec2 @aral PS. AFAICT, the regulation says the travel requests have to be granted with no scrutiny applied. So it seems more like a mandatory register of people abroad than a restriction, but still …
@ujay68 @prefec2 @aral But that's not the way it is written, right? It's written as "To travel, you must get approval and do X." If it was written as "All men who are German nationals between such and such an age must get a physical and register their current address," that would seem to be less legally objectionable.
@ujay68 @prefec2 @aral It really seems like there should be a process for getting a judicial judgement when a law pretty clearly doesn't harmonize with EU membership requirements. Otherwise, countries could pass all sorts of objectionable stuff, decline enforcement and then drag things through the courts for years
@Infoseepage Here’s the text of the law, for reference:
https://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/wehrpflg/__3.html
For what it’s worth and according to press reports, the relevant ministry says: “As military service under current law is based exclusively on voluntary participation, the relevant authorisations must, in principle, be granted.”
@Infoseepage @prefec2 @aral The federal administration and the secretary of defence have now made clear that no application/approval will be necessary in times of peace. https://social.bund.de/@Bundesregierung/116369486224365124
Bundesregierung (@[email protected])
Attached: 1 image Das Verteidigungsministerium wird eine Ausnahme von der Genehmigungspflicht noch diese Woche zulassen. Das Wehrpflichtmodernisierungsgesetz sieht dies ausdrücklich vor. Aktuell gilt also für alle: Es braucht keine Genehmigung für Auslandsaufenthalte! Das könnte sich ändern, wenn sich die Sicherheitslage verschärfen und der Wehrdienst verpflichtend werden sollte. Für diesen Fall hat das Verteidigungsministerium mit dem Gesetz vorgesorgt.
@ujay68 @prefec2 @aral Then change the law to actually reflect that, because otherwise, it's just at the whims of the current administration and what they define as peace. Germany is currently the second largest backer of the Israeli state war machine and a major base for US interests in Europe. I woke up this morning not knowing whether Donald Trump had nuked Iran overnight or not. This sort of thing can change in a flash.
@Infoseepage @ujay68 @aral backing Israel is off topic here (does not mean that I agree with it). However, the government changed the law from stating that such limits to males only apply to a time of crisis, which was the old text, to the new version requiring this anytime. Now they issued a general allowance. So the law stays and is worse than before, as now they can remove that any time. Also it is a very German solution, making things more complicated instead of fixing them.
@ujay68 @prefec2 @aral Then change the law to actually reflect that, because otherwise, it's just at the whims of the current administration and what they define as peace. Germany is currently the second largest backer of the Israeli state war machine and a major base for US interests in Europe. I woke up this morning not knowing whether Donald Trump had nuked Iran overnight or not. This sort of thing can change in a flash.
Passenger@ujay68 @Infoseepage @prefec2 @aral
"In times of peace" is a worrying imprecise phrase in a world where declarations of war have gone out of style.
Was Germany at war in the 2000s, when they had troops in Afghanistan? Legally yes or legally no, depending on what is most useful to the government at the time. This creates ambiguity, and that is the death of good law.
@passenger That’s me abbreviating things here. You’re free to refer to the exact text of the accompanying directive once it’s out. (And I agree that laws should be clear, concise, and unambiguous, but you’ll probably never get that as long as lawyers are involved. 🙃)
@ujay68 @Infoseepage @prefec2 @aral
"In times of peace" is a worrying imprecise phrase in a world where declarations of war have gone out of style.
Was Germany at war in the 2000s, when they had troops in Afghanistan? Legally yes or legally no, depending on what is most useful to the government at the time. This creates ambiguity, and that is the death of good law.
@ujay68 @Infoseepage @prefec2 @aral
"In times of peace" is a worrying imprecise phrase in a world where declarations of war have gone out of style.
Was Germany at war in the 2000s, when they had troops in Afghanistan? Legally yes or legally no, depending on what is most useful to the government at the time. This creates ambiguity, and that is the death of good law.