Stuart Langridgemade the mistake of thinking that I could do with a new keyboard, and so reading stuff online about it. This is useless; everyone who talks about keyboards is a nutter about them. It's like trying to ask about new headphones for your bus trip on audiophile forums or something.
what I really need to do is go to a shop and just try typing on a bunch of keyboards, but there aren't shops like that in the city centre, more's the pity
Nic@sil i would probably start by trying to determine the form factor you need (an ergo one? Full size? Tenkeyless?) and then go from there! From my small stint in the keyboard industry, I can confirm no one is normal about it 😂
@NicMakesStuff I did not know the word “tenkeyless” until about 12 hours ago but I do now so I have learned some things! Fortunately, I think that such questions are answered by “I’d like the number pad because Blender uses it” which is convenient
Matthew@sil You can manage Highgate for Curry’s shurely? Nice walk through Highgate Park, see rust massive St Alban church and the central mosque. Or CEX on bull street maybe?
@dracos there’s a Curry’s there? Neat, I didn’t know that. That could be the answer! Nice one, thank you!
Anton Piatek@sil @dracos I found the range in curry's really limited. You're right, they're all fanatics and even if you've a firm factor in mind there's still loads. Worse if you're OK with US layouts as there's a million custom ones out there, which may be great for choice of keys (Cherry MX) but impossible to try unless you know someone with that set
Peter Oliver@sil In the mechanical department they'll probably "only" have so-called red switches, but at least you can rule them in/out.
Mat Cucuzella@sil this was funny and struck very true with my recent experience. I now have a keyboard that feels nice to type on but had no tilde or back tick keys. Ugh.
popey@sil what is wrong with your current keyb? What do you want to see improve with a new one? Size/weight/travel/sound/features? Maybe think on the requirements before trying to whittle down all keyboard options from top down?
@popey the problem is that I don't know. What's wrong with my current keyboard is that it's the one that came with the Acer Aspire One; it's my fallback, after my cheap logitech broke. It lives on my desk always so I don't worry about travel or size or weight, and I don't need features much, I don't think? But I mostly don't know enough about this to even know what I don't know. I have low requirements here, though!
unattributed 𓂃✍︎@unattributed @popey I'm not sure. I mean, obviously, having no wire is in general a good thing, because there's less to get tangled up on my desk, but it never goes anywhere other than the desk, and the cheap one I've been using for six months has a wire, so it's not the end of the world. plus you never have to put batteries in
@sil @popey Okay - safe bet is Keychron. Their C2 keyboard is inexpensive, wired, full size, and not all the mumbo jumbo stuff you get with custom keyboards.
https://www.amazon.com/Keychron-Mechanical-Keyboard-Hot-swappable-Backlight/dp/B08CNBBHQ1
@sil @popey Second option I just found: Kisnt KN104. Full size keyboard, has wireless operation, but you can just keep it plugged in.
I own three of the smaller version of this keyboard (KN85), and I am using it right now. It's an amazing keyboard I can't recommend enough. (If I had realized they had a full-sized version of this keyboard I would have recommended it over the Keychron.)
https://www.amazon.com/Wireless-Mechanical-Keyboard-Swappable-Bluetooth/dp/B0FFMRT99D
Amazon.com: Kisnt KN104 Wireless Mechanical Gaming Keyboard, 100% Full Size 104 Keys with Number Pad, Custom RGB Backlit, Creamy Sound, Hot Swappable, Bluetooth/2.4GHz/USB-C for Win/Mac/PC (Carbon Black) : Video Games
Buy Kisnt KN104 Wireless Mechanical Gaming Keyboard, 100% Full Size 104 Keys with Number Pad, Custom RGB Backlit, Creamy Sound, Hot Swappable, Bluetooth/2.4GHz/USB-C for Win/Mac/PC (Carbon Black): Gaming Keyboards - Amazon.com ✓ FREE DELIVERY possible on eligible purchases
@unattributed @popey I appreciate the effort here, don't get me wrong, but a keyboard that costs £70 is pitching it a bit high for me if I'm honest. This one seems to make a big deal of how it does a load of stuff I don't care about (having lights, swappable keycaps, sound deadening?). I'm just not discriminating enough (or invested enough) for stuff like this.
I understand where you are coming from on this. I think the big thing to understand is keyboards have been going through the enshittification process (to borrow Corey Doctorow's term) for over 25 years. Personally, I started using PC's all the way back with the original IBM PC, I remember keyboards like the IBM Model F and Model M, which were amazing keyboards. (Which, by the way, there is a company that produces the successor to those keyboards. Their Model M style keyboard is priced around $200. Which is appropriate given inflation between the 1990's and now.)
Unfortunately, companies like Logitech, Corsair, Microsoft, and Dell have continually made worse and worse products, while maintaining the same prices. This brought companies like Leopold, Das Keyboard, Keychron and others in with keyboards that were being made with similar quality standards to the old IBM keyboards, but at much higher prices.
But, then groups of makers and hobbyists started making keyboards by hand. They started discovering a bunch of things about the designs, and found ways to make keyboards better than the large companies. These keyboards were even more expensive because they used exotic materials, and were completely hand built.
Now things are coming full circle. There are companies like Keychron, Asus, Logitech (somewhat) and SteelSeries, that are learning the lessons that the custom keyboard community learned, and integrating that knowledge into their products. There are also some Chinese companies like Akko, Epomaker, Redragon, Royal Kludge, and Kisnt that are producing keyboards in a lower price range that (to varying degrees) offer higher quality that your standard Logitech keyboard.
What is tripping you up is all the marketing BS that is accompanying these keyboards. It's like all things tech - try to make the best buzzwords, and to make your product sound special with a bunch of psuedo-technical sounding horse manure. Most of that stuff is targeted specifically at non-technical gamer types who think the latest and greatest thing will make them a better gamer. It's the same thing we see with golfers being sold special (and expensive) clubs, or watch collectors buying $100,000 watches.
IMO - the best thing is to find something that is higher quality than the average $20 eWaste keyboard that you'll be able to use for 20-30 years, while not spending more than you need to. I feel that keyboards in the $50-ish range from companies like Keychron and Kisnt offer that kind of quality, usability, and longevity.
And, besides, if you buy the Kisnt and try it, you can return it if you don't like it. But, I'm going to bet that you will like it. :)
@unattributed this is eloquently put. I shall think harder on this. @popey
@popey also sorry, I didn't actually answer the question!
This little keyboard is not great because:
it doesn't have a number pad (Blender uses this)
it turns on numlock on startup which you have to turn off otherwise half your letters are numpad numbers and your password doesn't work
it's *grubby* and I can't make it be clean
it's white, so it shows the dirt a lot
but it's functional; I've been using it for months. So, low ceiling here!
@sil @popey do at least try and find a shop with some mechanical gaming keyboard and some membrane ones and kegwt a feel. Turns out I don't really like typing on mechanical ones (at less the usual MX red). I ended up with a razer membrane keyboard as its softer to type on (I also hate cheap membrane keyboards with a passion)
Chris Nicolson@sil @popey I know nothing about keyboards, but a colleague offered me one of these (he was switching to a different model). It made me realise how mad my big standard one at home was and I had to buy another one for there.
https://www.cherry.de/en-gb/product/kc-6000-slim
https://www.cherry.de/en-gb/product/kc-6000-slim
Mark Johnson@sil Have you tried looking at hardware reviews in PC mags? They might be a bit more practical and less obsessive than my fellow keyboard nerds :)
@marxjohnson I have not! are there still PC mags??
Some of the problem here is the same as looking for hotels, mind; the goal isn't to give a good review, it's to SEO-bomb every possible search so you watch the ads, so there's a lot of "2025's best keyboards reviewed wireless keyboard keyboards for travel my best keyboard" stuff...
Some of the problem here is the same as looking for hotels, mind; the goal isn't to give a good review, it's to SEO-bomb every possible search so you watch the ads, so there's a lot of "2025's best keyboards reviewed wireless keyboard keyboards for travel my best keyboard" stuff...
@sil There are, check out libbyapp.com (sign up with your library card). It will take some more manual browsing, but what you find might be more useful
@marxjohnson ooh, nice. I'll have a shufti!
Roger Light@sil I am not a keyboard nutter. I do have a mini keyboard with non clicky linear mechanical keys though. I could bring it to oggcamp if you wanted to try it.
@ralight i can’t go! I’m going to maybe go to Curry’s to at least try some out though
Garrett LeSage@sil There are enough keyboard-obsessed folks here on Mastodon to help you figure out what you'd want. 😁
I've "gone down the rabbit hole" a bit, but on a path that's not conventional: mechanical, smaller & smaller, ergo split, softer switches, ortholinear, programmable firmware, etc. It's not for everyone, and does take time to get used to things.
Basics:
How big?
How noisy?
How easy to press keys?
Do you need/want to consider ergonomics?
Do you want customizability?
Gaming at all?
@garrett big: not worried, it lives on my desk always and there's room
noise: I think no. I don't like clicky keyboards, I don't think
no gaming; I don't think I need customisability, as long as it's got altgr for Compose (and £ ~ etc)
ergonomics: if this means "do I want a keyboard split into two halves" or something, no. I don't have carpal tunnel or similar; this cheap-as-chips keyboard has been fine, so I'm not worried about that
noise: I think no. I don't like clicky keyboards, I don't think
no gaming; I don't think I need customisability, as long as it's got altgr for Compose (and £ ~ etc)
ergonomics: if this means "do I want a keyboard split into two halves" or something, no. I don't have carpal tunnel or similar; this cheap-as-chips keyboard has been fine, so I'm not worried about that
Simon B@sil @garrett look at this: https://www.keychron.uk/products/keychron-k10-max-qmk-wireless-custom-mechanical-keyboard-iso-layout-collection?variant=46429340565674 brown switches are nicer than red imo.
@sil It's excellent that your requirements aren't so specific. You'll find a keyboard you're happy with relatively easy.
I agree with @foobarry about using brown switches if you don't really care. They're the most loved switch in practice. (They can get loud, but not as loud as blue switches. But they have more feel than a softer and quieter switch, like red.)
I have a mostly standard Keychron with brown switches and it's pretty good. I've heard they have gotten better over time too.