Steve Troughton-SmithApple was once convinced the future of computing was 'apps', so iPad was designed married to that idea. But we're 16 years on now, and the present of computing is AI, and IDEs, command lines and virtualization, and Python, and git, and scripting and automation. iPad risks being completely left behind as a computing platform by not supporting any of that stuff properly, and developer interest has been waning for years now. It's well past time for iPad to get its shit together, and open up
GK@gklka not one you can ship on iPadOS
@stroughtonsmith changing rules is easy.
@gklka part of the problem is rules, part of the problem is technology. If what you're saying is 'it would be easy to fix this stuff', I disagree, but it still needs to be fixed
@stroughtonsmith and don’t forget that part of the problem is policies. Currently Apple wants to control who puts and which kind of AI on their devices. But I agree, it needs to be fixed.
Luca Molteni@stroughtonsmith @gklka how come? A remote IDE with agents can run perfectly fine on the iPad
Kyle Nazario@stroughtonsmith Just bought an M4 iPad Air. Feels very silly it’s way faster than my M2 Mac Mini but only the latter can do OpenClaw/Claude Code
Ingo@kn @stroughtonsmith You’re exemplified why Apple lacks the incentive to do more with iPadOS. It keeps selling just the way it is. Why mess with it?
Eduardo PontesI have a 16” MacBook Pro as my main Mac and relied on an 11” iPad Pro w/keyboard to be my mobile / around the house computer. Some shenanigans to circumvent limitations but it was okay-ish. Always hopeful that it would get better.
Then Claude Code happened, and suddenly a sluggish 2017 12” MacBook is far more useful just because it has Terminal and a “real” browser.
Its a crossroad. Either free the iPad to realize its potential or just kill the iPad Pro line.
MatchaMakes@stroughtonsmith I think the Ipad was abandoned as a computing platform, and pivoted to a content consumption device for the masses. It's nice they gave some toys for people to play with but Apple gave up on it a long time ago as any sort of computing platform. Agreed they need to get it's shit together. The hardware is so nice, but i rarely use mine, because i dont wanna be a couch potato.
Scott@stroughtonsmith there should have been an Xcode for iPad a decade ago
Victor Villas@stroughtonsmith Or is it time for iPad enthusiasts realize that this platform is not going the direction they hoped? It’s not walking towards an open platform. It barely take occasional steps towards a proper workstation; but has there ever been evidence that they’d be interested in surfacing the innards of the OS? They’re going to bet the platform that their main audience does not care about IDEs long term.
@villasbc 'iPad will never support a stylus', 'iPad will never get mouse support', 'iPad will never get windowing', 'iPad will never extend to external displays', 'iPad will never get a menu bar', 'iPad will never get support for sideloading'. We've heard it all before. It *is* moving in this direction, just very slowly. And the next big step I would like to see is Xcode and Terminal on iPad
@stroughtonsmith Not saying that it will never get a terminal or any specific feature. But when it gets one, will it really achieve feature parity with the Mac equivalent? Maybe in 10 years? If the iPad takes one step in the right direction every few years and in the meantime PCs also take a step away, I don’t really consider that as movement.
I have an iPad and I love it, but I have realistic expectations - it’s a large phone, not a small PC. One day my phone will have IDEs too, sure enough.
adamrice@villasbc @stroughtonsmith Wouldn’t the easiest (and best?) route to feature parity between Macs and iPads be Apple allowing iPads to run MacOS? Clearly the OS distinction is entirely arbitrary at this point.
@adamrice @stroughtonsmith Maybe? I don’t know, I don’t work there to know what’s easiest for them to do. And I also don’t know if “easiest” is what they would be aiming for anyway
David Cohen@stroughtonsmith Too true. My main computer for general stuff at home has been a iPad for years. Just sold my M2 Air and switched to a MacBook Neo.
Mayanja@stroughtonsmith yup. Especially the iPad Pro is not worth it anymore - unless you're an artist. When you have a MacBook Air that can do everything and more. The iPad feels superior in hardware but totally inferior in software. Such underutilised potential.
@stroughtonsmith don’t you wish it would just run macOS plus touch extensions?
Graeme 🏴@stroughtonsmith Who cares about crappy apple ipads anyway?
MarkV@stroughtonsmith And visionOS inherited the same fundamental limitations from mom & dad 🫤
Wish Apple would just tell the visionOS dev team to eat their own dogfood and build the platform they would want to use to get their own job done.
@stroughtonsmith future of computing (as presented to the users) is 'apps'
computing (as presented to developers) is 'whatever' so they can make the 'apps'
I don't see any contradiction?
using ipad for development? you do you 🤷
Olivier Roux (moose)@stroughtonsmith @cstross I don’t get why people want iPads to be “real computers”. I love my iPad as what it is: a great tablet for reading, browsing the web, watching videos, gaming etc. I’ve been a Mac user since 1984 and not once have I missed multi windows on iPad. Each device has its own uses.
@stroughtonsmith @cstross maybe iPads should not cost USD3000? That’s pro laptop territory… I think even Apple is not clear on what iPad should be.
@stroughtonsmith @cstross because they apparently cannot find a way to make it useful to you? You love the hardware but find the software limiting, which is what a section of iPad buyers have been complaining about since the original model. Maybe it’s because the iPad is fundamentally not for them? (Not trolling here, I find this actually an interesting question)
@otolithe @cstross macOS is getting closer to iPadOS every year; maybe the Mac is fundamentally not for you?
(These are silly arguments, and I've been hearing them for 16 years, yet Apple has steadily aligned closer and closer to what I've been asking for all that time. iPad has been my only 'laptop' since 2012, and I use it for hours a day — but that doesn't mean I can't point out what else the platform needs. My iPad is the most expensive and powerful computer I own)
@stroughtonsmith @cstross I absolutely love the Mac (since my first 512 Mac), I work on a Mac all day long, and really don’t like the trend to make it more iPad/iOS like. Just like I’m not a fan of attempts to make iPads more like Macs. I like a tool for each purpose/context I guess…
adacosta@otolithe @stroughtonsmith @cstross Anyone spending 3k on an #iPad is no different from anyone buying a maxed out M3 Ultra Studio when the cheapest Mac Mini would suffice. #Apple unfortunately created this problem with the introduction of the Pro line, the iPad should never have strained from original idea as being a simple device for consumption. But, MBA's at Apple had other ideas. iPad should still be the same 9.7 screen and nothing more.
Charlie Stross@adacosta @otolithe @stroughtonsmith Disagree! My iPad mini is the best ebook reader ever! Whereas the iPad solves a problem the WIMP UI paradigm can't, namely chording gestures.
Fazal Majid@cstross @adacosta @otolithe @stroughtonsmith agreed, I got a PocketBook reader to see what the fuss is about e-ink and frankly can't understand why anyone would prefer the grainy, low-contrast screens over an OLED or LCD iPad.
That said, the iPad's limitations are a direct consequence of Apple's self-interested control freakery. I am writing this on a Google Pixel Tablet running GrapheneOS, and while the hardware is nowhere as nice as my matte iPad Pro M4 13" or iPad mini, the software runs rings around them. Like a full-featured email client that can show full email headers and will auto-load images from designated senders only, or Tor Browser that doesn't require contortions. Also the calm from an OS that is not festooned with self-shilling ads.
Also, the hill I will die on: the real value of tablets is you can and should hold them vertical in portrait mode, which is why I found Apple moving the FaceId can to the long edge so galling.
Enrique Aliaga@stroughtonsmith What would then be the purpose of the Mac?
Eyes@stroughtonsmith sounds like what you want is a touch screen Mac. The various configurations of current Macs do everything you want to do other than touch. So why do you want Xcode on an iPad? Is it the form factor? It certainly isn’t the price.
The Mac is Apple’s development platform. It’s why they tolerate it being able to run arbitrary code and allow the CLI to control it. Until Apple sees value in the iPad as a development platform it isn’t going to allow it.
Arne Brand@stroughtonsmith That is a programmers perspective, not a users perspective.