Mel2d ago

Hating men is not and should not be an integral part to feminism.

Men hating is not progressive.

Men hating/testosterone hating is not okay because you are trans fem.

Only hating cis men isn’t okay either.

Trans men are men and hating men includes trans men.

(Yes, you can differentiate trans men as we’re not generally the people at issue in the same way as cis men are in patriarchy, but hating men includes us).

Not sure where I was going with this except it’s patriarchy you should hate and hating men does nothing to solve that and trans men end up getting balled into all of it when many of us have been the victims of patriarchy and misogyny our whole lives.

Show threadaustralopithecus
@Melezioh
While you're not wrong, this is also something that all masculine-presenting men just have to get used to in their lives. It's not progressive, no, and perhaps it isn't fair, but it's often a necessary survival mechanism.
After all, in the final analysis you're literally arguing "not all men" here.
Apr 1 at 8:10pmWeb
Show threadMel2d ago
@australopithecus I’m really not though. How am I doing so? I am saying hating men is not okay. As in hating men as a whole. And it’s not and it’s not something men should have to get used to, no matter how they present.
Show threadaustralopithecus2d ago
@Melezioh
It's the same principle as ACAB: any individual man might be a great person, but as a member of the social institution of men, none can be trusted (with the usual room for exception for actual personal acquaintances of course).
Show threadaustralopithecus2d ago
@Melezioh
(and fwiw you can trust that I'm not saying this because I want it to be true 🫩)
Show threadMel2d ago
@australopithecus I’m not talking about trust though. I’m talking about hating men. I have my own trust issues with men even being a man and transitioned for over a decade. I get distrust but hate is not okay. Trust can be earned but I shouldn’t be hated for being a man. Hated because I transitioned. Trans men catch a lot of flack from a lot of people for transitioning into the evil gender or whatever and it sucks and is uncalled for and downright harmful.
Show threadaustralopithecus2d ago
@Melezioh
Yep, I definitely don't disagree. It sucks the proverbial big one. I'm just saying it's also an expected and indeed necessary side-effect of patriarchy.
It may be worth noting however that the word "hate" (much like its counterpart "love") can mean many different things depending on many different factors, so it's not as specifically NOT mistrust/fear as you're hoping. Did you indeed mean something more specific, and if so can you talk more around what you meant?
Show threadMel2d ago
@australopithecus I think in hate I mean that feeling that causes people to be horrible to men or treat people badly (not distrustful but actually poorly) because they are men. The feeling that is anti-man. All those feelings that causes people to be poorly to trans men for being masculine and transitioning. It’s kind of you know it when you see it. I’ve known my share of man hating lesbians and feminists and run into enough man hating trans fems to just know what I mean. Sorry I can’t explain it better.
Show threadaustralopithecus2d ago

@Melezioh
Ok yeah, there's a specific type of anger that can come out with certain people that is obviously misplaced or displaced, and I agree it's not good to take your past trauma out on unrelated people, which seems to me to be the usual pattern.

But I also don't think it's usually a rational decision, and you can't argue someone out of an emotional trauma reflex, so in that sense I still think it's mostly true that you kinda just have to find a way to live around it, tragically.

Show threadNoa2d ago
@Melezioh @australopithecus hating & presuming negative intent are hard to distinguish, the latter being the logical conclusion of mistrust.