Beau
Dave RahardjaI am begging website owners to always provide a light mode. It’s an accessibility issue for me: my aging eyes are no longer able to view light-on-dark text for extended periods without severe ghosting/afterimages.
Graham@drahardja YES! I have astigmatism so it makes light on dark immensely hard and uncomfortable to read unless I bump up the text size 😭
Sashin@ghalldev @drahardja Is it important to have a toggle, or does making it respect the system theme almost always work?
Spring Cat@ghalldev @drahardja That’s so curious. I too have astigmatism and need reading glasses but I find light backgrounds extremely uncomfortable on the eyes.
Dark mode has been a god send to me. I don’t like white on black - I use dark grey and some very light shade of grey, and on my kobo I use a yellow tint.
I have trouble with brightness in general and wear transitions lenses, or very dark sunglasses when the day is too bright. That may be the reason the light mode bothers me so much.
@catzilla @drahardja That is interesting re: brightness, I have the opposite problem I have trouble in the dark and I never wear sunglasses.
Oddly I will occasionally switch to dark mode if it’s a rainy day because I get headaches. 😅
Eyes are weird.
AudhdDespiteNoisyAbleism 🇨🇦@catzilla @ghalldev I had a similar exchange with a previous employer.
They sent me an online resource with a dark background. I asked if one with a light one was available because I am astigmatic and I was unable to read it. The answer I got was “I am astigmatic too and I can read it“ so basically deal with it…
And so, they learned that each astigmatic was unique. 🤷♀️
Rick Baumhauer@drahardja Very much in the same boat - the ghosting started getting impossible to ignore a few years ago, and the time needed to induce it has continued to shrink.
λzyd@drahardja Despite its name, dark reader has an invert option so you can easily and quickly force a light mode on sites that lack one.
ideaPDish@drahardja
Wouldn't it also be great if there were a tool, in the browser that let you control screen colors better.... ie change the tint of all the pages...
I use dislexia reading colors, to tone the screen down, when I get bleery in the night. My workaround is macos accessability> display> colors.
I built my own icc profile that is in HSV color space, and for the choice, I made a pallate that has hue 0-360 by 5's.
I don't know how to share export it or where to find it, where it lives. so I can share it out. Tell me that, and you are first.
Rachel Stantz@drahardja Here’s what I wrote when I added automatic light mode support to my blog:
“This is something that improves accessibility, but there's also a practical reason: I myself use light mode. Like many folks with astigmatism, I find dark mode more difficult to read. […] I want a blog I can actually read even when my eyes get tired. And if it bothers me, there are almost certainly other people it bothers as well.”
I also take bilberry... it's supposed to help night vision, it has a myth, look it up.
I shouldn't have to say this, but you may also want to cut own on the hallucinigenics if that's a thing for you.
Maybe it's a sign that you need to put the screen away and read a book. Or Migrains.
Me too, I have this. including the age thing.
AllyPally@drahardja Yes, yes, yes! Beginning cataracts give me double images. White on black text requires a huge effort.
zygmydOh huh, maybe that's why I prefer light mode. I did not know that about astigmatism, thank you.
Eniko Fox@drahardja i have to use reader mode and if that's not available i'll try to set "page style > no style" in firefox and if that doesn't do it i just can't read it
Jernej Simončič �@drahardja I always use dark mode, but override it with my own settings on probably 90% of sites that offer their own, because nearly all of them use white text on dark (or black) background, which is way too high contrast for me.
Vanu Arson@drahardja
Heya Dave, I design a lot of websites and apps for my work. We usually design them for dark mode first, which means we often have design oversights in the light versions.
Are there any things we should keep in mind to make sure that the light versions are accessible to people like you?
@VanuPhantom I’m sure light-on-dark design has been discussed extensively since the days of print. I’m not a usability expert, but I can tell you what affects me personally.
I’m most sensitive to anything that look like bars: repeating strips of high contrast light against dark, like prison cell bars in old cartoons; these patterns cause severe afterimages, often lasting minutes.
My pet theory is that *light areas* in general cause afterimages for me overall. However, in light mode, the entire window is light, so it makes less difference because I basically get a diffuse, white-rectangle afterimage which doesn’t really interfere with details that I’m trying to focus on (it may reduce contrast somewhat in my brain but it’s fine). But in dark mode, the only bright things that cause afterimages are the fine detail (text), so as I move around these afterimages interfere severely against the new details I’m trying to read. A similar thing happens with bars when I’m in light mode.
@VanuPhantom Body text fonts matter too. A font with tall counters and good variation between characters are easier to read for me. For serifs, I don’t like fonts that have very thin parts (e.g. Bodoni) for text because they tend to make the thicker parts look like bars. I prefer fonts like Schoolbook that have more modest thick/thin contrast, or Adelle that has basically uniform line widths.
cobalt@drahardja @VanuPhantom Former graphic artist who had to choose fonts produced by Selectric typewriters, or using photography or clip art here. Of course an Old. I really dislike dark backgrounds on websites. I have to stop reading after a few paragraphs. I’m grateful with an iPhone I can use the Reader option to get the site out of dark mode and choose the size on the text.
Also, I’m a long time fan of sans serif fonts. I used Comic Sans for years and even now I produce many documents in Arial Narrow. I never saw Schoolbook or Adele but see they are nice for serif font use.
woe2you@drahardja My website is so old I haven't got around to adding a dark mode yet, you're fine.
AntoineIMHO, every modern website should support both modes.
In my case, it's the light mode that my aging eyes can no longer tolerate (too bright: my eyes tire quickly).
And while many rightly criticize dark mode for too much contrast between white text and a black background, for me, it's the lack of contrast that too often prevents me from reading without resorting to manual zoom.
Fortunately, today's CSS and `light-dark()` make supporting user preferences much easier than before.
However, while WCAG2 and APCA allow us to verify that the contrast is sufficient, what are the recommendations regarding excessive contrast?
Matti Aleve@drahardja til I am not the only one this happens to
Cheryl G Kasson@drahardja Thanks so much for that post. I have the same problem.
Daniel Howard 🌻@drahardja 2c: the web browser should manage this.
@dannyman I mean, it does to an extent. CSS has the color-scheme and light-dark() colors that respond to the browser’s settings.
But the browser can only do so much. CSS doesn’t convey the *intent* of elements, only their *appearance*. It’s much worse with React-style pages, in which the CSS *and* html elements have basically zero semantic meaning.
I use Reader mode to get around dark mode, which works sometimes for sites with mostly static blog contents, but a wholesale rewriting of the page style basically requires reading the minds of the developers.
@drahardja so ... HTML is fundamentally semantic ... there are a bunch of words that you want to read and some markup explaining how the author wants it to render ... but what happens on the clients side is fundamentally up to the client ... to represent the words ... that's why blind folks can browse the web with screen readers -- it's just words -- and you ought to be able to access a web browser that can cater to your own abilities as well.
This is more reliable than asking millions of random web sites to somehow understand every nuance of crafting CSS for each audience.
I believe the mainstream operating systems and web browsers already have a variety of accessibility settings, each frustratingly limited in its own way. We all know how to crank the font size up and down!
(Personally, I tend to avoid web sites that DON'T support a dark mode, which I find easier to read, but not to a degree that I need an accommodation. Kagi slow web has a neat switch for rendering random sites in light/dark mode.)
@dannyman HTML *can* be semantic, but only if the web developer cared. Many websites now use an intermediary framework like React that renders everything as divs, without any further meaning.
Some websites are considerate enough to use semantic tags like <article> but this is by no means universal, or even widespread in my experience.
Iván Uría 🤍Nah, that's not React's fault. That's developer's. You can use semantic HTML in react as well.
@drahardja I have a similar problem in Zoom meetings. They have changed the chat box to dark mode, and Zoom keeps recommending ways to change it back to light mode that just don't work on my computer.
Reddog@drahardja
I'm far from expert at web stuff. But I will try to implement this on my sites.
I'm far from expert at web stuff. But I will try to implement this on my sites.
kæt@drahardja and also light-on-dark because some folk have so many floaters it's not worth the effort of reading in light mode.
Angua 
@drahardja
I often find the opposite, UK anyway, been fighting the bank for years to get a Dark Mode for example.
I struggle with light mode (Photosensitivity) and am partially dyslexic.
I have ageing eyes anyway, surprised I don't get the issue you mention.
I often find the opposite, UK anyway, been fighting the bank for years to get a Dark Mode for example.
I struggle with light mode (Photosensitivity) and am partially dyslexic.
I have ageing eyes anyway, surprised I don't get the issue you mention.
Site Reliability Enby@drahardja
I will always loudly advocate for every site to support both, default to the user's setting, and have a prominent control to switch theme.
I will always loudly advocate for every site to support both, default to the user's setting, and have a prominent control to switch theme.
Wandering HermitAnd not just dark mode/light mode. Some folks build their sites with light gray on dark gray or the reverse. Cataracts reduce one's ability to decode low contrast; before I had my cataract surgery I could not read sites with gray on gray text, whether light or dark mode.
dr_barnowlYou should try the Dark Reader plugin
Despite the name, you can compel it to make sites light.
@dr_barnowl I’ll give it a try!
David - Forking Mad@drahardja I completely agree. If a site is dark only I just leave. I can't be bothered with it.
I've moaned a few times.
https://forkingmad.blog/dark-web-sites/
Todd Knarr@drahardja Better yet, have them honor the browser foreground and background colors (which follow the system theme) and font selection. That would simplify a lot of accessibility issues.
Bernie Luckily Does It@drahardja @pussreboots My phone with adaptive refresh sometimes sets the refresh low enough I can see light-on-dark text blinking. It's annoying.
Sarah Sammis@BernieDoesIt @drahardja I don’t need to be in this conversation.
Alex 
@drahardja I have a similar accessibility issue, but in the opposite direction. With black text on a white background, the background overwhelms my eyes and I cannot make out the character shapes to identify them without great difficulty.
Ben Harris@drahardja Thank you. This has encouraged me to try to work out a light scheme for the web site for my font (https://bjh21.me.uk/bedstead/). When I finally get it done, may I credit you in the commit message?
@bjh21 I’d be honored!
GarretSidzaka@drahardja @volpeon
And for me I get migraines from looking at light screens with dark text. Both options need to be available on all interfaces.
And for me I get migraines from looking at light screens with dark text. Both options need to be available on all interfaces.
OCTADE
Merilee D. Karr, MD, MFA@drahardja
Ghosting? Is that like double vision? (Medical term: Diplopia) If you close either eye, the image is clear?
I get that, too, but only after heavy exertion, like a long uphill hike, or hard labor in the garden. Since it's "exertional," (another medical term), my symptom raises the question of whether enough blood or nutrition is reaching my eyes when I exercise. Currently getting tested. I have no heart problems.
I also have astigmatism. Can just astigmatism cause double vision???
Ghosting? Is that like double vision? (Medical term: Diplopia) If you close either eye, the image is clear?
I get that, too, but only after heavy exertion, like a long uphill hike, or hard labor in the garden. Since it's "exertional," (another medical term), my symptom raises the question of whether enough blood or nutrition is reaching my eyes when I exercise. Currently getting tested. I have no heart problems.
I also have astigmatism. Can just astigmatism cause double vision???
@merileedkarr Not quite. The effect I’m referring to is like if you accidentally get the sun in your eye: the bright spot burns a portion of your retina and it takes many minutes for it to go away.
When I look at a dark page, the light letters are so bright compared to the background that they sear themselves into my retina, so I get after-images as I continue reading and scanning. Sometimes it gets so bad that the after-images persist even if I stop looking at the page.
I think it’s different from astigmatism, which can cause blurriness with bright lines as well.