Nice to see a Mastodon shout-out on The Daily Show last night, thanks to @eff Executive Director Cindy Cohn!

It's a longer segment, with some interesting nuance around social media and censorship later in the conversation.

(disclosure: I am an EFF Member / sustaining donor)

YouTube link (I don't think there's a Peertube version) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QkC1aK7jfLo

@andypiper @eff this is awesome!

for people that want to skip to the part where Cohn talks about Mastodon, it starts at 20:27

@andypiper @eff OMG, at the end when she says "this was fun" and Stewart is kinda shocked....ahahahahahah
@andypiper @eff “[Social networks] are not free speech, they are algorithmic speech, they are processed speech, kind of like doritos are food,” that’s a great point!

@zoul @andypiper @eff

Unless the particular social network is not algorithm driven

@andypiper @eff Great interview. I agree with Jon Stewart, there is no free speech on corporate social media platforms.

Using Facebook or X is like watching a film produced in North Korea. You just get whatever Zuckerberg or Musk wants you to see. They kick you out for any reason they choose, they throttle popular opinions and push extremist ones instead.

And for that reason, I don't buy the argument that regulating these businesses is censorship. Those platforms *are* censorship..

@andypiper @eff ..the EFF seems to have an American libertarian standpoint here, which seems kind of outdated. It doesn't work.

I can't sue an anonymous user in some random country because they posted something harmful on X. I can't sue Russian trolls. I can't realistically sue meta or x.

Moving to another platform like Mastodon is ok, but that's shifting the burden to users.

@andypiper @eff I'd like to see the EU ban foreign corporate social media platforms, period. We did it for television and print — there are laws against majority foreign ownership of media in some EU countries. We need to do the same to meta and x and TikTok.

@txtx I agree that @eff has a US focus; I'm also a member of @openrightsgroup here in the UK, and support similar causes of citizen rights in the EU as well.

I appreciated the mention of alternatives (Mastodon!) in this interview.

@andypiper @txtx @eff @openrightsgroup

Here's an example of @eff taking on an issue with global reach:

https://www.eff.org/cases/indymedia-server-takedown

Indymedia Server Takedown

Updated August 2005 » EFF press release about unsealed documents Aug 2 2005 On October 7 2004 more than 20 Independent Media Center (IMC) websites and other Internet services were taken offline pursuant to a Commissioner's Subpoena. The Electronic Frontier Foundation (EFF) represented the interests...

Electronic Frontier Foundation
@txtx @andypiper @eff I think you're wildly missing why the EFF has such a standpoint on these things, especially pertaining to speech.

First of all, lawsuits like that are extremely hard to enforce. They wouldn't do any good. We've already seen how that looks with the UK trying to put such fines on 4Chan and its owners. So unless you expect fucking extraditions for people posting bad words online, which is ridiculous, I don't know what your point in bringing up this inability is.

Secondly, regulating corporate social media almost always also means that the hobbyists and small site owners are hit in the crossfire as well. This would be incredibly difficult to navigate without censoring the internet as a whole even moreso than it is now, again demonstrated by the OSA alongside OS-level age verification laws. At least it shifts the burden away from the user though, right?

And lastly, as far as banning foreign ownership of social media companies, how would this be defined in your hypothetical here? Would my fediverse instance, being entirely U.S. based, get banned in the EU? If not, how are we defining "corporate" social media and what other types would be legally defined? How do we put things into this policy that prevent the misuse of it against small instance owners in the future? I don't see a realistic way to do this without making some serious compromises on the freedom to communicate with others on the internet. Also imagine if the US implemented a similar rule, or other countries for that matter. Everyone would be in their own walled-off silo, which is not what the internet was intended to be nor what it should become.

@thesofafox

Ummm...solving problems via lawsuits was the recommendation from the EFF. She's wearing an actual "sue the government" t-shirt in that interview.

I specifically said I *cannot* be expected to sue either these companies nor random internet people, so we need other solutions.

Redirect your rage please.

@andypiper @eff

@thesofafox On the topic of banning social media companies: are you a corporation with billions of dollars in revenue? If not, then your US-based Mastodon instance is fine.

That is the easiest part.

@txtx @andypiper @eff not necessarily raging, seems like I misread since I thought you were complaining about not being able to sue people. My bad there 🤷‍♂️

As far as preventing small instances from getting hit though, yes in theory that's easy but good luck having legislators actually write a comprehensive law that hits one and not the other. I have yet to see it in practice when it comes to digital laws.

@thesofafox For a working example, have a look at existing foreign media ownership laws in France or Germany, for print/television. They were enacted many decades ago.

They don't prevent every evil thing from happening, but they don't have to. An 80% improvement is an improvement.

@txtx trying to search up said laws doesn't come up with anything you previously described, so linking to a source would be wonderful.

But in any case, I also highly disagree with any law that disallows foreign media presence. That's the same kind of tactic that got Al Jazeera forced out of Israel. It's also the same tactic the U.S. used to get Tiktok into the hands of U.S. companies. It's the same reasoning that states like Russia and NK use to block out critical media from other countries. In no way do I see that actually being a net positive for anybody except for the government in which that law is enacted.

@thesofafox Here is an overview of the strictest laws in the EU. France has the clearest rules about foreign ownership. Other countries also have media concentration laws (such as Germany) which are not listed on this map, but in practice have a similar goal.

https://www.rcmediafreedom.eu/Multimedia/Infographics/Foreign-media-ownership-in-Europe

@andypiper @eff my account got suspended by Mastodon few days ago because of only using 2 words about 2 nationality 🤣🤣. Freedom at social networking? No chance
@GOKUSHRM @andypiper @eff If you have your own instance, or you're on an instance that matches you, you can't be suspended. You can only be suspended if you've registered on an instance who have policies that they deem you don't follow. Suspension is instance specific, not global.
@marcusxms @andypiper @eff so I need to selfhost my own instance to avoid suspense?

@GOKUSHRM @marcusxms @andypiper @eff Or communicate with the staff, follow the instance's rules or chose another instance that is a better fit  

SO many options!

@stux @marcusxms @andypiper @eff u may change the instance but u can't change ur views. So problem still the same.
@GOKUSHRM @marcusxms @andypiper @eff I’m not sure what problem you are referring too
@stux @marcusxms @andypiper @eff where is freedom when u have to obey the rules

@GOKUSHRM @marcusxms @andypiper @eff Why can’t freedom exist within the boundaries of the rules?

Does your freedom has to come at the expense of someone else?

Respect is more important than saying whatever the heck you want  

It’s not that hard

@stux @marcusxms @andypiper @eff if ur views hurt someone that doesn't mean u don't respect them.

@stux @GOKUSHRM @marcusxms @andypiper @eff

I'm blocking that troll. No wonder he got suspended: he's testing boundaries so he can break things.

@GOKUSHRM
Are you not free if your neighbour doesn't let you have their game console?
Are you not free because you'll be thrown out of the restaurant when you pour soup on the other patrons?

@stux @marcusxms @andypiper @eff

@Landa @stux @marcusxms @andypiper @eff plying with neighbour & writing on social are different things.. Social media promotes their stuff as freedom of speech. But when users write or post something that doesn't match their rules or agendas they start banning them.

@GOKUSHRM
So you used slurs for two nationalities and the administrators kicked you out?

As others have said, you're free to start your own instance where no one else can suspend you for what you say, no matter how disagreeable.

@stux @marcusxms @andypiper @eff

@Landa @stux @marcusxms @andypiper @eff yes, nothing was wrong in that post.
@GOKUSHRM
I'm sure it was a perfectly fine post for a troll.
@stux @marcusxms
@Landa @stux @marcusxms I don't like trolling so I don't do that. Someone got offended by few words and reported my post as racist tag. Moderate suspended my account. I made an appeal they clear my account by deleting my post & I'm back on Mastodon.. I was not upset with my suspension. Iwas upset that they suspended my account without any warning or without giving me an option to edit or delete that post. Mastodon should add 24hrs warning period before suspension of any account.
@Landa @stux @marcusxms I'm not obsessed with social media apps. I already deleted all social apps and I can delete Mastodon too if I have to face same thing here. Life was good before any social app and will always be good. I am Only here to Join the community and help others in any ways.

@GOKUSHRM @Landa @marcusxms @andypiper @eff We are not for "freedom of speech" and never ever said that

Free speech is just a bullshit excuse to act like an a-hole without consequences

Thanks but NO thanks

@andypiper @eff it's called the fediverse

@mattesilver @andypiper @eff

Right now, you want to avoid using the word 'Fed' for anything 'libre'.

@andypiper @eff thanks for sharing this link 🤓🤓🤓
@andypiper @eff Did she mention that the more you toot the better you feel?

@andypiper @eff I'm behind a VPN and use LibreWolf, which clears a bunch of stuff for me when I quit. I usually don't though. It's usually just open all the time.

When I close it for whatever reason it does take a while before I'm able to watch youtube again. It'll ask me to log in so it knows I'm not a bot or just error out.

But before long I'm able to get in again. I assume all the tracking through other sites has found me.

So no worries. I can watch it.

@andypiper @eff And it's well worth watching. I really like the back and forth between her and him. Totally on her side and she argued it very effectively, I think. I was already though.

@andypiper @eff Thank you so much for sharing this!

We've shared it on our other (corporate) social accounts as a cheeky nudge to invite people to join us on the Fediverse. We really want to find ways to encourage educators and filmmakers to join us here.

@andypiper @eff
Cindy wasn't able to expand on the Mastodon thought, though. Jon kind of skips over the thought. 😒
@andypiper @eff Great video !
I regret there wasn’t mention of SJGames’ FBI raid at the birth of EFF in 1990… but that’s my rpggeek talking

@andypiper @eff

I have told people about Mastodon, and when I tell them they seem shocked, they have no idea, this wonderful place exists. Most recently an elementary school principal on a cross country flight. How did they not know?!

@andypiper very hollow advice, considering she doesn't appear to be on Mastodon/fedi herself...
@andypiper @eff Cindy Cohn and Jim Tyre (both of EFF) did a great job representing me on my case against ICANN when it refused to let me (as a sitting member of its board of directors) look at its financial ledgers.
@karlauerbach @andypiper @eff they should've had a cann-do attitude from the start
@andypiper @eff This was a great interview!