AlvaroHow do you deal with the reality of loneliness?
redlemaceI’m 100% sure some people can be relied upon. But only if it’s a two-way street. IF it works one way, it will only be once.
But think about it, you can never truly know, both for factors outside of their control and factors within their control. For example, they might get sick, they might die, they might get mental health issues that stop them from being a good friend. As well as factors within their control, they might decide to prioritize you less, they might decide that they just don’t want to do it anymore. You can never really be sure, even your best friend, your partner, your parent, your sibling, all of them can one day decide that they don’t want to be there for you, or that it’s not right for them. Even if you never gave up on them and was always there for them, they might not want or feel obligated to, or even if they feel obligated to, they might not act on it.
You are stretching it. T.ex. when someone -as you said- get ill or dies, you just can’t say they are unreliable because being dead is not very supportive to you.
Being reliable isn’t the same as being able to give the desired support. Someone is relieable when they make maximum effort -compared to the situation- to be there and provide whatever support they can.
🇰 🌀 🇱 🇦 🇳 🇦 🇰 🇮 how do you deal with the logical conclusion that no one can ever truly be relied on and that you can always find yourself alone with no support?
I simply don’t think that is the logical conclusion to come to.
NONELearning to feel comfortable with yourself and to be grateful to those who are with you in the present.
Everyone gets off the train sooner or later, including ourselves. Don’t worry about it, just enjoy the ride and the company of the moment.
This is generally my approach as well. I only find it problematic when I reach really tough times in my life and I find out that it is hard to just be with yourself.
Try to let your “self” “die” when you can. I have trouble being around my “self” at times, and I’ve found the best way to deal with that is to let the part of you see as that “self” fall away from your mind and just exist. That little “death” can help you to be more in the moment and less in your own head dealing with whatever ruminations are rattling around in there today.
I definitely want to try psychedelics at some point to truly experience ego death/ego loss, but my methods work well enough for me.
I like the way you phrased that. I had a similar experience making peace with my mortality when I left religion. The self I “am” is just an illusion. It’s the link in a metaphorical chain that’s being forged. There were a lot of links before me and there will be many after me and every new link is shaped by the experience and skills the blacksmith developed from the previous links. I am not the link, but rather, I am the chain. Every action I take was made possible by the past and will echo into the future through the people I impact, the physical artifacts I create, and those will someday leave behind. One day the chain will have many links. Looking back from the newly forged links my link will become distant and less detailed, and yet, I am still the chain. Even if I am no longer known by name and everyone I ever knew has been dead for centuries, my actions will continue to echo until the end of time itself. That’s the only way I was able to make sense of it without resorting to woowoo metaphysics, deities, and such. It’s also why I feel it’s so important to be nice to people.
Now I’m wrestling with the nature of consciousness.
I hope you have a great day!
I understand that feeling all too well. Do you really have no one by your side for those moments? It can be hard sometimes to tell the difference between perceived loneliness and “real” loneliness.
As an example, when I was a teenager, many of the times I felt lonely, I was actually isolating myself so as not to bother anyone. So, whenever something bad happened to me, I didn’t have anyone to help me.
I don’t have an answer and it is the one thing I am truly afraid of. As an autistic man in this society I have come to the conclusion that I will most likely be alone in the future. Developing relationships of any kind is extremely difficult for me. Right now I’m ok because I have family that are still alive and want to care for me. But when they die where will I be? I’ve fully accepted that I may die by suicide in my 50s due to loneliness.
Same here, and it really sucks. I see a lot of people being able to form new relationships relatively easily and maintain multiple relationships and I find myself for the most part incapable of maintaining more than one or two meaningful relationships, and when they end I usually end up being basically alone.
Tough one. I think the answer depends on what it means to be alone and what loneliness is.
In my 20s I had lots of friends I could call up and hang out with any night of the week, but I felt lonely because I didn’t have a partner.
Now in my 40s I have a partner and 2 kids who are very dependent toddlers and I feel lonely because I feel like I care for them all so much but there’s no one to care for me.
I guess loneliness is the feeling of wanting to share a specific thing and being unable to. With toddlers you realise there’s an inverse feeling in that every moment of every day must be shared and sometimes it would be nice to be alone.
Like all feelings, if you try to embrace it and really feel it, rather than pushing it away, the feeling can quickly dissipate rather than consuming you.
FRYDReliability isn’t black or white, there are varying degrees to it. Some people can be counted on more for some things than others. Some people can only be counted on in certain contexts or with proper preparation. You’ll never find anyone you could rely on 100%, I’d wager you couldn’t even rely on yourself that much.
How much you can rely on someone or vice versa isn’t what I would consider in my rubric for whether I’m alone or not. Sometimes you have to deal with things alone, sometimes you choose to. That’s just life. Support and help are nice when you can get it, but it’s your life in the end. You have to be the one to live it.
I’d only consider myself lonely if there’s no one I connect to and if that were the case, I’d look for new people. Eventually I’ll find someone I connect to in some aspect of our lives. Even if I can’t always talk to them about my struggles in that aspect, I’ll know they’re out there struggling too and that will give me some peace and validation.
Mister NeonLearning to suffer through it. Embrace silence and stillness.
CherryI am trying to tackle my urge to be reclusive by getting out, and doing old school activities, making an effort to smile or chat. I am not looking for anything formative really, but its a step towards making sure i don’t feel lonely.
I try not to care what others think (not in an obnoxious way)…it really helps.
As with anything else, we should care what others think to a certain point and filter out the crap.
I don’t care what terrible people think about me or what I do. Their opinion is trash if they are trash. People who have small interactions and react based on assumptions get dismissed as well.
But people I know who do understand context and strangers who are reacting to what is actually going on have thoughts that I do care about. I won’t treat their thoughts as absolutely correct, but will consider why they think that way.
So I do care about the opinion of the person who I had ilited contact with, but had good opinions about other things and will consider why they might think that I was wrong. I don’t care about the opinion of someone who always sees the worst in people, even if they have to make up a story in their head to do so. Whose opinion and what lead to it is important, and I have changed for the better because of it while also learning to not care about the assholes or misinformed.
Everyone eventually dies, including us but probability is still a thing and if you are so desperately worried about being alone; join a poly relationship. The odds of all of them dying at the same time is very low and you can add more people over time who you love and who loves you too.
Find a way to help others. You’ll feel a part of something if you do. Being alone isn’t hard but being lonely is crippling. Even getting a kitten as a pet will alleviate some of that. All the best.
Libbhow do you deal with the inherent human yearn for others when you know that you can never truly rely on them?
Two remarks:
I’m trolling, here but only half because the moment one stops expecting more than what others are willing to give them, there is no risk of ever feeling disappointed. Perfection, or even just expectation of it, is one of our worst enemy:
‘I will only write that story when I’m ready and sure I write it perfectly!’ say countless wannabe writers that will never write their story.
‘I will only marry the perfect dude/gal’ say so many people that will remain single for their entire life, missing out on potentially amazing lifelong partners while they’re waiting to meet the perfect one that probably doesn’t not even exist outside of some fantasy land.
My spouse and I have been together for 25+ years and counting. One of the reasons our couple remains that strong (if not stronger than ever) is that we’re both keenly aware of our own and the other’s ‘flaws’ or imperfections, theirs and our own limits. And we’re fine with them. We’re also fine being different and often not agreeing on stuff. She has friends and activities that I don’t like at all, like I have friends and activities she don’t like either. We do things on our own and meet those people on our own, and that’s it. But we also know we have each other’s back when it really matters like we know we’re happier together, despite our flaws ;)
Exactly like with love, friendship is an exchange. Heck, even a one night affair is supposed to be an exchange. One just don’t exchange the same kind of things but both people do bring something to the other and it doesn’t need to be that special to be valuable and appreciated for what it is: a gift.
Personally, I learned to value what people are willing to share with me more than what I would want them to share with me.
Expecting perfection is also very risky: if one feels they should receive only the best out of any people they interact with, why should they not be expected themselves to always give their best and to be perfect friend/lover/date/whatever? I don’t know about you, but I am far from being perfect be it as a friend, a lover, a date, or as a whatever ;)
The first step is to understand that all relationships are transactional. Not a single human relationship is unconditional.
You start by making yourself useful, pleasant and interesting to be around and people who understand and accept the “deal” will reciprocate and most of them will be reliable.
There are no guarantees so it’s also a little bit of a numbers game. More is better to a point… usually about a dozen close relationships is optimal.
It’s just a closer and more intimate version of the broader social contract. Break it and suffer. Maintain it, nurture it, and benefit.
Learn what you can, and are expected, to bring to a relationship (be it romantic or otherwise) and work on improving what you offer.
All human relationships and communities since the beginning of time have relied on this transactional nature of relationships.
Anyone who says otherwise is blindly naive or misunderstanding what any given individual can bring to a relationship.
Sounds like capitalist propaganda. I’m not sure what your childhood was like but parental love isn’t really transactional, and if it was for you then I feel really sorry for you.
I knew someone would bring up children to try and debunk that all relationships are transactional but this is actually extremely simple.
A child’s role is to grow, develop and learn from their parents and society. Very easy on their part as it’s basically all automatic for them.
A parent’s role is to protect, provide, nurture and support their child. All easy stuff to understand.
If a parent fails they will be judged extremely harshly by society and end up with a child that has behavioural problems.
Historically the driving desire to have lots of children was so that some would survive and be able to provide for you in your old age. Still somewhat relevant but far less so than historically.
Turns out pre-modern agriculture the work required to survive was hard on the body and basically doomed the elderly who didn’t have a younger generation to provide for them. So not a problem resulting from capitalism as it was different but present under feudal and tribal societies.
We’ve seen what happens when parents fail, such as a child having an extremely abusive and controlling mother is a strong predictor of psychopathy. Basically all the worst serial killers you’ve ever heard about had abusive mothers.
The only way for children to fail on their end of the transaction really is to die or be severely disabled. When they’re closer to being adults that dynamic changes and some people, both child and parent, have great difficulty ‘renegotiating’ the relationship.
Having children with severe disabilities is devastating and I won’t go into that right now as it’s a massive topic by itself.
Oh and I had a pretty good childhood and am on good terms with my parents but thanks for taking a pity swipe at me lol
Weird, because raising a child, or a child helping a parent, doesn’t really strike me as a transaction. Helping people out isn’t really transactional. None of what you described seemed as a transaction.
Social transactions aren’t the same as monetary transactions. I don’t know what you expected.
Studies on altruism are very interesting but almost no relationships are based purely on altruism from what I understand.
From a biological or evolutionary perspective, altruism is a behaviour that decreases the fitness or genetic contribution of one individual while increasing the fitness of another.
「黃家駒 Wong Ka Kui」 | (aka: 鳳凰院 凶真 Hououin Kyouma)Chinese Families have joined the chat
starlingukHow is my wife looking after me for the past 6 years because I can barely do anything myself anymore (thanks to Covid) “transactional”? She’s the one who earns the money, by the way.
alinaI contest that it is not a logical conclusion, and more likely you’re suffering from loneliness and not coming to that conclusion with a clear mind.
You want people to be “truly relied on”? What does that mean? At your beck and call with whatever whims one has? People can be reliable but there are limits. Unless you yourself think it’s acceptable to be everyone else’s gopher.
What’s your standard for being reliable that makes you, through a twisted facsimile of rationality, think you’re going to be alone? Why would someone have to meet that standard to give you company?
I think you are assuming a lot of things.
When I say someone to rely on, I mean someone who would show me that they want to be there for me when I’m going through tough times. I’m not even talking about necessarily being there for me, but knowing that there’s someone who cares and wants to be there for you.
Poetry.
Journaling.
Make songs about the fact of the cruelty of this world of constant betrayals… and sing it alone. Maybe in front of a mirror so you feel like you are looking at a parallel timeline you and wont feel alone.
I have like lyrics written about the concept of secrets and betrayal and there is this one line that I’ve written I want to mention:
“你到底是谁，看不透你的心里
但没办法，生存依靠一起”
Translated something like:
“Who the hell really are you, I cannot see through inside your heart [as in: your mind, what you’re really thinking]
But there’s nothing I can do about it, survival depends on us [humans] being together”
So… just accept it…
Accept the fact that someone can declare their love for you and can totally stab you in the back
And be prepared for it
But try to not be too paranoid and accidentally shoot them first, careful of friendly fire
But at the mean time, enjoy the company of whoever you might have…
I’ve kinda accepted the fact the even my mom who constantly told me she loves me and I remember cuddling with her as a kid, could just totally do “bipolar” stuff that would harm me…
You need to have a shield… to be activated when you feel something isn’t right.
FizzI dont deal with that because its not a logical conclusion.
If you have no one to rely on its not that that person doesnt exist its that you havent found them and built that trust. Be discontent with loneliness and take it as a sign to go out and find social connection.
A worse scenario is to become content with loneliness
kittenzrulz123I personally find the answer is quite simple, I just tend not to interact with people irl. People suck tbh and the most deranged toxic people I have met are irl, online I have my silly gay frens :3
Captain AggravatedConsider a stack of solo cups. They’re tapered and designed to efficiently nest one inside another for efficient transport and storage. Though they are filled with each other, we still consider them empty. Because though they are designed to nest together, that’s not what they’re for.
You cannot fulfill your own life by filling it with similarly empty people.
Fill it with booze instead.
insomniac_lemonThat’s the neat part: I don’t.
I mean… I’m sure it’s possible that there are people out there that’d make it at least better more than 50% of the time. I don’t know about you, but I live in a low-density area (carless) and have no real viable options to meet… anyone really.
The other half of the story is that I too have a brain that isn’t really wired to do that anyway. I never really made friends in school and probably could live underground and would only go half as crazy as people normally do. Put my brain in something mostly mechanical and it’d probably be hard for most people to notice (especially with people not understanding the difference between robots and cyborgs).
Unlike a lot of people, even the internet isn’t really a social space for me either.
I have struggled with feeling lonely during different times in my life. I found In was attached to preconceived outcomes and some unhappiness I was feeling stemmed from that. When I stopped searching, I learned to find. I stopped trying to plug that hole and I sat uncomfortably in my loneliness. I’m definitely still a work in progress, but now I try to enjoy my time with people, to be more in the moment and less “10 steps ahead”. Now, most of the time, my loneliness doesn’t live on the surface, just in that occasional existential dread of knowing that one day I will have to die. I hope someone I love will be there to hold my hand, and I’m scared to be alone. That’s a heavy weight and I sometimes wish I was too stupid to recognize our mortality so I didn’t have to wrestle with it.
When I was young, I had my parents, grandparents, even great grandparents, and thought I always would. I was friends with a bunch of kids in the neighborhood and at school. I’m down to one parent and a super young and hip grandparent in-law in their 90s. When everyone was sick with Covid and my partner was feeling the stress too, there were times I felt very alone and I really felt the weight of having nobody to lean on in those moments because everyone was just as overwhelmed as me. It’s an uncomfortable part of the human experience. I try not to put all my eggs in one basket, but as an introvert it can be hard to maintain a large circle of support. Hopefully some of that answers the question. I’m curious how others see it.
People ca be relied on up to the point they can handle. You can’t expect someone who is barely getting by on an hourly job for example to take off work for some emergency or for someone living with a roommate to take you in without getting the roommates ok. There are plenty of people that I know that would love to help me in a variety of ways that are just not really feasible. I know there are friends I have had and we live in different states and such that likely remember me fondly as I do them. Heck I even have a brother not to far away and we help each other some but we both are married and our first repsonsibility is to our spouse and family. We do what we can. But yeah in the end we mostly die alone as others go before or after us. If we don’t die alone its usually a pretty horrible thing.
Hanrahani don’t know, I’ve never been lonely, alone for sure but that’s often something I desire.
how do you deal with the inherent human yearn for others when you know that you can never truly rely on them?
flip that around, are you someone that can be relied on, they way you write this it seems every relationship is transactional for you?
You join my cult