Kagan MacTane (he/him)

RE: https://hachyderm.io/@mekkaokereke/116305793811427182

I'd been thinking about making some time to read _Project Hail Mary_ so I could go see the movie and join the convo about it. And then I read this šŸ‘‡šŸ».

Nice to not have to crowbar that into my schedule, but overall? I'd rather Andy Weir had just not been a shitwaffle. Seriously, I am _so sick and tired_ of white-guy SF authors turning out to be right-wing assholes.

(Also, the thing about "there's no symbolism or themes in my work"... dafuq? Why would any writer say something like that? šŸ¤ÆšŸ¤”)

Mar 28 at 2:55pmWeb
Show threaddansup1d ago
@kagan oh dang, that sucks, but I appreciate @mekkaokereke and you for making that more widely known.
Show threadkit šŸŒ¬ļøšŸŒ¦ļø1d ago
@kagan @mekkaokereke Iā€™m sure others have mentioned this already, but ā€œsymbolismā€ and ā€œthemesā€ are systematically denigrated in fascist conversation about media, so if thatā€™s an authorā€™s diet, thatā€™s why they might say that.
Show threadCherizilla1d ago
@kagan Oh that's a bummer! Thx for the info though.
Show threadaoanla1d ago
@kagan people who are incapable of stepping outside their own culture (because they've never had to) often believe that they're never "political", because for them, "politics" means "stuff that makes me step outside my own direct needs".
Show threadMedea Vanamonde šŸ³ļøā€āš§ļø1d ago

@kagan @mekkaokereke

Unfortunately White Male SF authors especially Hard Science SF Writers get drawn to Right Wing Culture.
Historically it was Heinlein, Anderson and Pournelle browbeating fans and up and coming writersā€¦now itā€™s nearly automatic.

Show threadTito Swineflu1d ago
@MedeaVanamonde @kagan @mekkaokereke Of course, the exception to the right wing culture trend is THE culture, although right wingers with poor reading comprehension seem to think those books speak to them as well.
Show threadKagan MacTane (he/him)1d ago

@tito_swineflu @MedeaVanamonde @mekkaokereke You mean the Iain Banks series? I've been meaning to try those out sometime.

Also shout-out to James S.A. Corey's _The Expanse_ for being non-right-wing.

Show threadMedea Vanamonde šŸ³ļøā€āš§ļø1d ago
@kagan @tito_swineflu @mekkaokereke in the culture. Everyone is basically born transgender or transsexual how you wanna be picky about definitions: everyone changes their gender about every 60 years or so or less for their 200 year lifespans
Show threadMichael Busch1d ago

@kagan @tito_swineflu @MedeaVanamonde @mekkaokereke

Jeff Bezos is supposedly a fan of "The Expanse". Which is strange, since he is so obviously the villain of the series.

But there is nothing that someone will not miss the point of.

(See Elon Musk misunderstanding everything from "The Matrix" to The Culture novels.)

Show threadBluejay1d ago
@michael_w_busch @kagan @tito_swineflu @MedeaVanamonde @mekkaokereke Musk having a trans daughter and not understanding that ā€œThe Matrixā€ is an allegory for the trans experience is mindblowingly hilarious.
Show threadMichael Busch1d ago

@bluejay @kagan @tito_swineflu @MedeaVanamonde @mekkaokereke

I did not appreciate the trans allegory in "The Matrix" until I read a piece by the Wachowskis explaining it.

But Musk continues to miss the point even after they explained it to him personally.

Show threadKrzysztof Sakrejda1d ago
@bluejay @michael_w_busch @kagan @tito_swineflu @MedeaVanamonde @mekkaokereke and tragic
Show threadBluejay1d ago

@wronglang @michael_w_busch @kagan @tito_swineflu @MedeaVanamonde @mekkaokereke Speaking of:

https://wandering.shop/@susankayequinn/116308036120140813

Sue is Writing Solarpunk šŸŒžšŸŒ± (@[email protected])

Attached: 1 image https://evilwokemindvirus.com/

The Wandering Shop
Show threadKrzysztof Sakrejda1d ago
@bluejay I'm not usually a merch person but I need that pink cap
Show threadSteve Gisselbrecht1d ago

@kagan @tito_swineflu @MedeaVanamonde @mekkaokereke

The Culture novels are so, so, SO good. Seeing someone say "Oh yeah I've been meaning to read those" makes me wanna scream RUN TO THE BOOKSTORE they are amazing and wonderful.

Show threadSteve Gisselbrecht1d ago

@kagan @tito_swineflu @MedeaVanamonde @mekkaokereke

NB that Banks, in some interview or something, said that his friends basically staged an intervention at some point and said, Okay, Iain, you are allowed ONE (1) socialist rant per novel, and once you know that while reading his books you can always see it. Oh, yeah, here's the Designated Socialist Rant.

Show threadStu1d ago

@stevegis_ssg @kagan @tito_swineflu @MedeaVanamonde @mekkaokereke

Me. It's me. I had Consider Phlebas decades ago and didn't get far in, and ever since have basically said what you wrote there every time I spot them in a book store.

Show threadTito Swineflu1d ago
@tehstu @stevegis_ssg @kagan @MedeaVanamonde @mekkaokereke I don't like consider phlebus as much. He was still in his I'm-being-punk-and-shocking phase after the wasp factory. I'm glad I stuck with the series, though.
Show threadMedea Vanamonde šŸ³ļøā€āš§ļø1d ago

@tito_swineflu @tehstu @stevegis_ssg @kagan @mekkaokereke

I started with The Player of Gamesā€¦better intro to The Culture, Drug Glands, Gender Switching, Drones - Ships - Minds etc.

Show threadMedea Vanamonde šŸ³ļøā€āš§ļø1d ago

@tito_swineflu @kagan @mekkaokereke

Addendum white american male authors of hard sf

Show threadHeathen šŸˆ1d ago
@MedeaVanamonde @mekkaokereke
This is why I put a pause on reading books by cis white guys. Honestly I just couldn't handle even the background levels misogyny anymore.
Show threadPaul Lalonde1d ago
@heathen_cat About 10 years ago I chose to only read fiction by women writers for a year. Greatly expanded my view on the field, found some amazing writers, and *wow* there was so much less fasc. I used to think I was a balanced reader, but this experiment showed, and corrected, real gaps.
@MedeaVanamonde @mekkaokereke
Show threadC. R. Collins šŸŒ³ šŸø1d ago

@kagan

Oh. I was thinking I should at least see this movie, but seems no reason to bother. And this was one of our indie publishing "heroes." šŸ˜”

Show threadAlessandro Corazza šŸ‡ØšŸ‡¦1d ago

@kagan

Somewhat surprising because his second book (although bad) had a female main character. Books # 1 and 3 are definitely generic white guy exceptionalism though.

What's the right-wing thing he went on and what did he say?

Show threadHal Pomeranz1d ago
@alessandro @kagan https://hachyderm.io/@heathborders/116306888079462393
Heath Borders (@[email protected])

@mekkaokereke I never cared for the book that much (tho I enjoyed The Martian a great deal). It's disappointing that he went on a fascist podcast to support his movie. I'm not going to listen to the podcast itself, but I found coverage of the podcast from a fascist blog, and being "apolitical" in a time of fascism means you're at least condone fascism. I looked for other interviews, and he seems like a generic "libertarian" and "I don't see race" white guy. I can definitely understand not supporting someone with that kind of racism. https://www.westernjournal.com/project-hail-mary-writer-says-hit-film-worked-avoided-woke-political-agendas/

Hachyderm.io
Show threadAlessandro Corazza šŸ‡ØšŸ‡¦1d ago

@hal_pomeranz @kagan

Ew, critical drinker. I've had to block that channel from my YouTube feed because the algorithm tries to get me to watch that and a few other right-wing channels that sometimes talk about Star Trek. No thanks.

Show threadKagan MacTane (he/him)1d ago

@alessandro @hal_pomeranz I think I may have heard the name once or twice before, but nothing else about it. At least now I know not to ever give it any clicks or attention.

And that it's a red flag if someone goes on it.

Show threadAlessandro Corazza šŸ‡ØšŸ‡¦1d ago

@kagan

It's one of those channels that rails about Trek having "gone woke", which is an indication of 1) being a huge asshole, and 2) never having understood Trek beyond "phasers go pew pew hehehe"

Weir's response is so clueless and tiresome - more whining from someone who has enough privilege that they don't have to notice these things. Must be nice to not have to think about politics because politics isn't currently thinking about you. He's a shit writer too.

@hal_pomeranz

Show threadKagan MacTane (he/him)1d ago
@alessandro Looks like it was on the Critical Drinker podcast. In here: https://www.resetera.com/threads/andy-weir-author-of-project-hail-mary-does-interview-with-right-wing-content-creator-shitbag-the-critical-drinker-to-promote-the-film-adaptation.1475038/, hit the "Click to expand" link under "Messageofanego said". There's some stuff in the first 2 grafs, including him using "woke" as a pejorative, and then scroll down to 58:17 for the stuff where he agrees "identity politics" is "crappy" and then claims he never puts politics, messages, or deeper meaning into his work at all.
Andy Weir, author of Project Hail Mary, does interview with right-wing "content creator" shitbag The Critical Drinker to promote the film adaptation News

Source: Post from r/saltierthankrayt (OP also indicates that Weir "clearly [showed] that he's a fan of Drinker during the interview"). Perhaps this isn't news to those more familiar with his work, but this is really disappointing as someone who absolutely loved Project Hail Mary, both the film...

ResetEra
Show threadBluejay1d ago
@kagan Damn, I really liked ā€œThe Martianā€ (book and film) and was just about to watch this one. Are there any details or links to what he said or did?
Show threadHal Pomeranz1d ago
@bluejay @kagan https://hachyderm.io/@heathborders/116306888079462393
Heath Borders (@[email protected])

@mekkaokereke I never cared for the book that much (tho I enjoyed The Martian a great deal). It's disappointing that he went on a fascist podcast to support his movie. I'm not going to listen to the podcast itself, but I found coverage of the podcast from a fascist blog, and being "apolitical" in a time of fascism means you're at least condone fascism. I looked for other interviews, and he seems like a generic "libertarian" and "I don't see race" white guy. I can definitely understand not supporting someone with that kind of racism. https://www.westernjournal.com/project-hail-mary-writer-says-hit-film-worked-avoided-woke-political-agendas/

Hachyderm.io
Show threadBluejay1d ago

@hal_pomeranz Thank you for this.šŸ™šŸ½

@kagan

Show threadKagan MacTane (he/him)1d ago
@bluejay Looks like it was on the Critical Drinker podcast. In here: https://www.resetera.com/threads/andy-weir-author-of-project-hail-mary-does-interview-with-right-wing-content-creator-shitbag-the-critical-drinker-to-promote-the-film-adaptation.1475038/, hit the "Click to expand" link under "Messageofanego said". There's some stuff in the first 2 grafs, including him using "woke" as a pejorative, and then scroll down to 58:17 for the stuff where he agrees "identity politics" is "crappy" and then claims he never puts politics, messages, or deeper meaning into his work at all.
Andy Weir, author of Project Hail Mary, does interview with right-wing "content creator" shitbag The Critical Drinker to promote the film adaptation News

Source: Post from r/saltierthankrayt (OP also indicates that Weir "clearly [showed] that he's a fan of Drinker during the interview"). Perhaps this isn't news to those more familiar with his work, but this is really disappointing as someone who absolutely loved Project Hail Mary, both the film...

ResetEra
Show threadBluejay1d ago
@kagan Thanks for this. Wow. So disappointing when storytellers claim to have ā€œno messageā€ and ā€œno politicsā€ and fail to understand that EVERYTHING is politics, and claiming not to have one just means your message is that you support the status quo. And referencing a dude who said ā€œall sci-fi TV is influenced by Star Trek except for the current Star Trekā€? I donā€™t even know where to start with that BS (and Iā€™m heartbroken they canceled ā€œStarfleet Academyā€).
Show threadBluejay1d ago
@kagan Maybe more importantly, he said this on a known and established right-wing podcast that apparently led the Internet hate against Brie Larson for ā€œCaptain Marvelā€? Yeah, I donā€™t need to give him my business. Lots of other storytellers out there who lead with empathy and inclusivity, and who enlighten as well as entertain.
Show threadRick d Card1d ago
@kagan People are more than just one thing. I enjoyed the book immensely. I don't like the right wing. These 2 things can inhabit the same space if you choose.
Show threadCynthesisToday1d ago

@kagan

Some alternatives takes other than from a white male vlogger milking The Algorithm:

https://ffrf.org/publications/day/andy-weir/

https://www.wired.com/story/social-nuance-of-artemis/

https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/movies/articles/why-project-hail-mary-ignited-230056768.html

https://www.nae.edu/19579/31222/20054/311408/316925/The-Bridge-An-Interview-with-Andy-Weir

For me, Project Hail Mary is definitely in my top 5 SF books of my long life so far. His descriptions of Rocky's perspectives rival Up the Walls of the World by James Tiptree, Jr. His wielding the proximity to real science is in the same category as Charles Sheffield. I couldn't read it fast enough for wanting to know what happened next.

Show threadAlsoPaisleyCat šŸ‡ØšŸ‡¦1d ago

@CynthesisToday
If your definition of real science hasnā€™t progressed beyond an undergraduate degree in the 1980s ā€” well then, sure, I guess.

Science fiction can and should include speculative and fictional science.

If I want mid 20th century physics, Iā€™ll go back to reading actual physicists from the era like Gregory Benford.

@kagan

Show threadCynthesisToday1d ago

@AlsoPaisleyCat @kagan

Goodness... why the insult? Sure you guess what? I'm not a scientist, but I am an engineer who reads research papers and PhD theses for the thrill since retiring from chemical process development. There is some amazing science happening with the application of the sciences of interconnectedness.

Bear, Benford, and Brin, The Killer B's, all great SF writers. Tiptree (nom de plume of Alice Sheldon) had no science background, but wrote very imaginative speculative fiction. Sheffield was a mathematician and physicist.

How wonderful to find writers like Weir who write as well as old school SF writers. I loved Ann Leckie's Ancillary Series (mid-2010s). Can you recommend some post-2020s hard SF writers?

Show threadAlsoPaisleyCat šŸ‡ØšŸ‡¦22h ago

@CynthesisToday

No disrespect intended towards you, just towards Weir.

I have seen him cited frequently in recent years as an amazing ā€˜hard science fictionā€™ author.

However, much of that discussion is contemptuous of authors who know more modern physics, biological sciences/ genetics and other fields. If itā€™s not within the frame of undergraduate physics circa 1980, itā€™s not ā€˜hard.ā€™

I agree about Bear, and Brin, and Leckie. I would include Vernor Vinge and CJ Cherryh in there too. Those critics do not.

More problematic though is that, along with praise for Weir, there is significant signalling and outright claims that other writers who include diverse representation are somehow not writing ā€˜real science fiction.ā€™ Thereā€™s coding going on around this in science fiction spaces.

As long as Weir didnā€™t take this position himself, and taking into account some of his themes of climate change and other issues, I was willing to let it slide ā€” in recognition that any popular science-positive writing has inherent merit.

Much as you are arguing we should consider doing.

But Weir has chosen to insert himself into the conversation, to argue that his work is better and to denigrate the works of others. Which is why this discussion thread took off.

At which point, I am not willing to let his claims slide.

@kagan