Bluebabbler
Greenpeace International“You cannot blow up the sun. It is incredibly difficult to disable a decentralised network of millions of rooftop solar panels. Distributed energy is inherently more resilient to sabotage than a handful of massive, vulnerable thermal plants.”
Tim Ward ⭐🇪🇺🔶 #FBPE@greenpeace "It is incredibly difficult to disable a decentralised network of millions of rooftop solar panels"
The threat is that this can be done by hacking half a dozen manufacturers' IT systems - most of the solar panels can be controlled online.
Nate@TimWardCam
Then let us secure our own infrastructure! The shit routers they install are a fucking joke. And you can't get them to give you any more information or guidance on securing it.
They don't know either.
No one seems to be securing the many solar vendors rapid growth from subsidies.
@greenpeace
@nolsen311 @greenpeace The installers left ours with an unsecured wifi access point. Which allowed any random passer-by to access the internet.
CalibanThat sounds like a challenge.
Becca@calibanscreations @greenpeace Am I being paid to?
KerplunkIt is incredibly difficult to disable a decentralised network of millions of solar panels with household battery storage.
Full agreement. Power networks are soft targets, atomic power stations and radioactive waste storage a horrific disaster waiting to be triggered.
kravietz 🦇Yet, nuclear power stations are the only reason why #Ukraine power grid works after #Russia has annihilated hydro power plants, coal and gas power plants, and stole huge PV farms in Kherson oblast. Nuclear power plants, which Russians did not dare to destroy - and portable petrol generators, which kind of do count as distributed power generation. That’s the real world versus crypto nerd’s imagination 😄
And as it comes to PV - yes, you can’t “blow up the sun” but 1) a single country - China - currently controls[^1] 85% of the whole PV supply chain, 2) panels are easily damaged by natural (hailstorm, wind) and human factors (cluster munitions, fire) plus they depend on inverters which can be hacked remotely[^2]
[^1]: https://www.iea.org/reports/securing-clean-energy-technology-supply-chains
[^2]: https://berthub.eu/articles/posts/the-gigantic-unregulated-power-plants-in-the-cloud/
Brad Macpherson@kravietz @Kerplunk @greenpeace 1) Sure, but once the panels are installed who the fuck cares for 25+ years - and there's nothing stopping us building our own (re-) manufacturing capacity, it's established tech; 2) they're also easily replaced and not nearly as easy to damage as you make out; plus damage to a panel doesn't necessarily stop it working entirely, nor the panels beside it; and 3) don't connect inverters to the internet. For the love of all that's foul and corrupt, don't do it.
nothing stopping us building our own (re-) manufacturing capacity
Well, so why aren’t we doing it now? Because Chinese production is much cheaper thanks to energy mix based 60% of coal, forced labour and weak environmental protection laws. Which is absurd way of doing “energy transformation” since CO2 doesn’t really care about administrative borders.
@kravietz @Kerplunk @greenpeace Right, so we go with your method of... continuing to burn stuff other scumbags with questionable attitudes to human rights dig out of the ground, because the alternative that's available right now isn't perfect?
Cop on, pal. We install decentralised power generation equipment, wherever possible sourced from ethical manufacturers, and we work on rebuilding our own ethical and local manufacturing capability.
I don’t know who is “we” but German BASF has just opened the largest factory in China, which doesn’t sound like “rebuilding our ethical and local manufacturing capability”, just the opposite 😄
@kravietz @Kerplunk @greenpeace Nobody's saying we *are* doing the right thing with regards our manufacturing capacity - quite the opposite, we are not doing nearly enough.
We can do more than one thing at a time though, as Americans like to say we can walk and chew gum. Replacing FF generation with decentralised (largely PV, and wind/micro hydro/etc. wherever possible and not deleterious) harvesting can't wait for local manufacturing but won't stop it. Only thing in the way is policy and will.
Well, so why aren’t we doing it now? Because Chinese production is much cheaper thanks to energy mix based 60% of coal, forced labour and weak environmental protection laws.
Sounds nearer to England than China, wages nobody can live from is Modern Slavery. UK Hospital, leaking roof, delapidated, ridiculous working hours.
China, things have changed in the last 30 years, mostly for the better, the transformation toward green tech is the fastest on the planet. .
Canvases By Peter 🇵🇸@kravietz @Kerplunk @greenpeace ...and how many times has Ukraine come within a hair of a major nuclear disaster after the latest bombings? 10? 100? 1,000 times? It's only through sheer LUCK it hasn't happened.. Yet.
Of course if a solar panel is hit, you simply replace it, not evacuate the entire area for 50-500years.......... But ahwell, keep hatin'on green I guess.. 🤷♂️
within a hair of a major nuclear disaster after the latest bombings
Literally zero times, because Russians never dared to bomb Ukrainian nuclear power plants. At the same time they caused massive environmental pollution by targeting chemical plants, conventional power plants, hydroelectric power plant in Nova Kakhovka, killing hundreds of people and pollution hundreds of km2 around Dnipro river etc.
What you’re comparing is an imaginary nuclear risks that never happened, and for good reasons, against actual risks caused by war activities targeting conventional power plants that have materialised hundreds of times during this war.
But ahwell, keep hatin’on green I guess.
I don’t “hate greens”, I’m just saying “Greenpeace” have very different goals from protecting environment, especially that in 2019 they have voted in favour of extending coal in Germany until 2038, not to mention their subsidiary Greenpeace Energy trading Russian fossil gas in Germany.
@CanvasesByPeter @kravietz @greenpeace
@kravietz @Kerplunk @greenpeace
...and how many times has Ukraine come within a hair of a major nuclear disaster after the latest bombings? 10? 100? 1,000 times? It's only through sheer LUCK it hasn't happened.. Yet.
Of course if a solar panel is hit, you simply replace it, not evacuate the entire area for 50-500years
More like 500,000,000 years in the worst affected areas.
Russia is not hitting the Reactor Ruin because they can not control wind.
@Kerplunk I mainly said '50-500' because there are already people living back in the Chernobyl exclusion zone (a real-world example), but yes, depends on how big/bad the disaster will be.. And of course that simply wouldn't happen with Solar.
stealthradek@greenpeace "We may not be able to blow up the sun, but we can build a giant mirror in space so we can control the sun energy and profits" - some "businessman" right now
Administrator<obvious sarcasm> Can't blow up a sun? Someone's never heard of a Type 1a Supernova. The star doesn't even need to be very big.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Type_Ia_supernova
(Paging @evilscientistca in case he wants to correct my math.)
@mdm @greenpeace @evilscientistca Preeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeety sure that if our sun WERE to "blow up", no matter WHAT ENERGY you're trying to use on Earth and no matter how much you hate green energy, NONE of it (absolutely _ZERO_) will save you my dude. 🤣
Jason Nishiyama@mdm @greenpeace You'd have to add about 40% more mass to make that happen 😉
... and make it a white dwarf...
Andrew@greenpeace I actually can blow up the sun I just choose not to