Calico JesseAdvanced Dungeons and Dragons was the first RPG Heartbreaker.
Fight me.
Digital Mark λ ☕️ 🕹 👽@deinol As I understand the Forge people, they meant it as a slander against games that were too complex to learn in one session or required "math" (anything more than 1-digit addition), and wouldn't make a lot of money or displace D&D.
But AD&D made a stupendous amount of money, funnelled all of it to Gary instead of Dave until the lawsuit, displaced Basic D&D by about 25-50% until they pretty much killed Basic for AD&D 2E. Remained too hard for Forgeites to learn.
#ttrpg #dnd
@deinol Most of the "heartbreaker" games were massively more successful than the Forge games.
Palladium, Arduin, WHFRP are still in print & cool after almost 50 years.
The one I almost agreed with them on was Imagine RPG, what a mess! But it's also still in print, has supplements & fans.
Dangerous Journeys got TSR'd which is both sad & karmic justice, but it still had more books & income (but not profit after lawsuit).
#ttrpg #dnd
I don’t think any of those were considered Heartbreakers. The Heartbreakers were games where the designer clearly hasn’t played anything except AD&D and didn’t learn any of the lessons from the variety of games in the 80s that you mentioned.
@deinol The Forge forums and people I met, def considered Palladium & Arduin Grimoire heartbreakers, to the extent they were aware they existed. Imagine got roasted a LOT (and again, I don't disagree on it… but it survived and the Forge is dead).
Arguably the Forge lives on in PbtA and FitD games.
Certainly Burning Wheel is still around.
E.T.Smith
Wilhelm Fitzpatrick@deinol Burning Wheel is more a fellow-traveller than an outgrowth of the Forge, since Luke was well into his journey already when he encountered the Forge. I think it did however give him the confidence to fully embrace his own vision in BW Revised, so in that way BW becomes a study in heartbreak averted 😏