@_elena I keep asking for this "decentralized" protocol to help me move off of all infrastructure controlled by the Bluesky corporation, and I keep getting the answer "well…so…uh…actually…"

Unfortunately I'm not waiting around for the "exit from evil billionaire control" scenario Jay Graber talked about a year ago or whatever, because that's already happened. So if I can't use ATProto without Bluesky, I guess I won't use ATProto. 🤷🏻‍♂️

@jaredwhite I noticed your posts Jared… and I was following with curiosity the replies. It doesn’t look good.

What worries me is that here in Europe advocacy for the open social web groups the two protocols together (ATProto and ActivityPub).

Also: European politicians and media organizations are gravitating towards Bluesky / ATproto and mostly ignoring the Fediverse…

@_elena Well…I would say it's "complicated".

I could envision a world where every major country or socioeconomic region has its own ATProto-based social network, because they have the resources to run that kind of infrastructure at scale. Not saying I like the idea, but that seems to be how ATProto was structured. Several *large enterprises* could run services which interoperate.

That's quite different from ActivityPub where you can run a decent social networking instance off a Raspberry Pi. 😄

@jaredwhite

You can run some of the ATProto infrastructure on a Raspberry Pi as well, with some of the same trade-offs we have here, like not having the full network view.

https://stefanbohacek.online/@stefan/116126040489956521

Not really trying to advocate for the Atmosphere here, mind you, but there is quite a lot of momentum over there.

And there is definitely progress, even if it's slow. A bit like here.

@_elena

@coreysnipes I do like that there is interest in implementing some of the better ideas here, things like portable identity, or at least better account migration.

But we all know here there is just not enough funding for all the work that's needed.

Yes, Bluesky/Atmosphere is heavily subsidized right now, but still, there is a ton of momentum and excitement around it.

There are people putting in the effort to make the ecosystem more decentralized, many don't like how much control Bluesky the company has.

And they might just very well succeed.

@jaredwhite @_elena

@stefan
I still believe at some point in the future both protocols will converge. I imagine adding ActivityPub directly on top of a PDS would be one way (there's been a few experiments with that). I know there's a few AtProto apps that would like to add ActivityPub at the Application level. And it's probably only a matter of time before someone sets up an ActivityPub server that lets you sign in with your PDS, there's a lot of options out there, just have to figure out what works best for people (and figure out how to fund it all)

@coreysnipes @jaredwhite @_elena

@tom

Yes, this is what I believe myself as well.

And some/all of you might know that wafrn comes with a built-in PDS already.

https://wafrn.net/faq/user.html#blueskyIntegration

If I was starting with the fediverse today, I might just be looking into running my server with it instead of Mastodon, honestly.

@coreysnipes @jaredwhite @_elena

@tom @coreysnipes @_elena @stefan @jaredwhite

we cant hire an UI designer
you can pay for one here

@gabboman @tom @coreysnipes @_elena @stefan I apologize for my comment, I know OSS dev is hard and I didn't mean to sound unkind.

Best wishes.