Dare ObasanjoAmericans really got bored with free trade, the best and brightest in the world wanting to come here, low corruption and childhood diseases like measles being eradicated.
I guess things are definitely less boring now. Worse, but also less boring.
Jeff Atwood@carnage4life so there were no problems in America to address? This system was working well for all Americans? https://infosec.exchange/@codinghorror/116098902726924703
@codinghorror Are things better now? 🙃
@carnage4life and a highly polarized two party system is the worst form of democracy, so… https://infosec.exchange/@codinghorror/116104218445674780
Tim Bray@codinghorror @carnage4life You do *not* have a polarized two-party system. You have one boring middle:of-the-spectrum party and a corrupt lying cheating fascist-adjacent ultra-extremist party. The problem is unipolar.
@codinghorror @carnage4life I forgot to mention racist and misogynist.
@timbray @carnage4life I agree but scholars disagree with you on this point (that we don't have a wildly polarized two party system). That's .. demonstrably untrue. Email me for all the citations. They are in my timeline, too. Either way. Doesn't matter.
@codinghorror @carnage4life I guess the problem is the word "polarized" - the etymology is straightforward from "polar" as in "polar" opposites", and thus the word has the strong connotation that the poles are unreasonable and truth is somewhere in the middle. When you're talking about current US politics, that’s actively misleading and dangerous. I think anyone wanting to argue seriously about the current scene should really stop using "polarized" and "polarization".
@timbray @carnage4life yes, I mean in terms of extremes us vs them, either you are with us or I have sworn a blood oath against all of your kind, etc. It’s palpable here and disturbing
@codinghorror @carnage4life OK, but you talk about "us" and "them" as if they're equivalent forces, and they’re just not. The problem is that one of the factions is insane. It is that specifically that is causing the breakdown of conversation, not some generalized bipolar extremism.
@timbray @carnage4life hard, HARD DISAGREE; the incentives are all aligned to create this dynamic for maximum "if it bleeds, it leads" competitive tension, especially here in the USA. In fact, the problem is N=2. N>2 means you can form coalitions and there's more than "us and them" to choose from. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Us_and_Them_(song)
@timbray @carnage4life this is a very narrow bandwidth channel, suggest switching to higher bandwidth for this topic, which is complex
"The lyrics of the song were written by Waters. They describe the senseless nature of war and the ignorance of modern-day humans who have been taken over by consumerism and materialism. In an interview, Waters shared the significance of each verse:
The first verse is about going to war, how on the front line we don't get much chance to communicate with one another because someone else has decided that we shouldn't. The second verse is about civil liberties, racism and colour prejudice. The last verse is about passing a tramp in the street and not helping."
@timbray @carnage4life us. and them. That's the problem, and you know it.
Luke Kanies@codinghorror @timbray @carnage4life it is definitely a problem that we have a two party system.
But… the problem right now is that one of our parties is actively trying to (and succeeding in) destroying our country.
To describe that as a “polarization” problem is naive at best, and complicit at worst.
@lkanies @timbray @carnage4life and how do we fix that without n>2 to form coalitions? Simply bet on the "other" party, which is also beholden to Citizens United and infinite money in politics, which no other country in the world allows? Please explain. Please explain in detail, step by step. I want to understand.
@lkanies @timbray @carnage4life pass an amendment? NOT POSSIBLE. NOT. POSSIBLE. https://infosec.exchange/@codinghorror/116056668112430977
@lkanies @timbray @carnage4life "Scholars refer to this as 'constitutional calcification.' The U.S. has the hardest constitution to amend in the democratic world." but yeah, the other party. Explain this to me. Explain it to me, please. Right here, right now, step by step.
@lkanies @timbray @carnage4life are y'all really this naive? I apologize, but I honestly don't get it. Explain yourselves. Step by step. Here. Now. Do it.
@lkanies @[email protected] @carnage4life none of you could explain this. Therefore, there is no way to explain it. Correct me if I am wrong, and I would LOVE to be wrong about this.
James Cape@codinghorror @lkanies @carnage4life This is a common problem. Someone could also ask you to describe in detail how a left party could grow to the stature necessary to entertain power sharing agreements with Democrats in a national first past the post electoral system.