LOL I won't ride any of the LTS 4 and monst of the LTS3 streets here, which is where our city puts their "bike lanes". After seeing the "bike streets" and modal filters in Santa Barbara, California, I think that's the easiest way to make cycling possible in the suburbs here. #BikeTooter
@ai6yr So the thing about putting bike lanes on LTS4 and LTS3 streets is that yes, there IS a better alternative, but that doesn't mean you shouldn't serve the people who are going to cycle on those streets anyway. Invariably, people will cycle on them, so you should do the retrofitting to make them a SAFER space to do it. And last I checked, even shitty bike lanes do increase safety even though they don't ensure it. It should be done, but isn't the ONLY thing that should be done.
@HayiWena @ai6yr if it's an LTS4 after bike lanes are installed, the engineer is bad but also I don't think it's worth installing it for whatever marginal gain you got. You now put a bike lane effectively no one is going to use on what is likely the most significant road, meaning people that don't want real changes can reasonably point to the shitty bike lane and say "why bother".

@DemonHusky @HayiWena @ai6yr

Yeah so frustrating! I've visited so many towns and small cities and neighborhoods in big cities, where the only bike infrastructure was on the main drag. With cars going 45mph and nothing but paint to protect you

We need to bicyclize the small streets first, and the main drag after

In places built during the era of the cul-de-sac, sometimes the main drag is the only route from a to b. That way means we need to create woonerfs, pave the often already existing informal paths that connect one cul-de-sac neighborhood to the next

I think the reason city planners put bike lanes on the main drag is partly that it's visible, so it looks like they're doing something. And partly that it doesn't occur to them that someone might take back streets to get from one place to another

Obviously the solution is to stack the planning committees with bicyclists, and give them a larger budget than the part of the transportation department that deals with car streets

Somehow we need to convince people that the future is micromobility, and any money spent accommodating cars is probably wasted

@NilaJones @HayiWena @ai6yr it's definitely depends on location (and by that I mostly mean political will), but the best case is to do the main streets with the destinations that people are traveling to first, because if you can't get to your destination safely, you aren't biking there.

@DemonHusky @HayiWena @ai6yr

That's not how bicyclists get places

They don't go along the main drag, unless they are in a neighborhood that doesn't have any quiet through streets

And even then, they probably cobble together a zigzag route, that avoids the main drag as much as possible, cuts through alleys and parking lots and dirt trails, etc. Anything to avoid being where the cars are

After traveling a mile or two on back streets, they go the final block on a busier street, to get to the actual destination

The question is, how do we codify this and make it safer?

@NilaJones @HayiWena @ai6yr Cyclists don't travel on the main road because the main road is crap. Most cyclists (and here I'm including all the cyclists that choose not to ride because the destination isn't safe) don't /want/ to zig zag and take parking lots and alleys, they choose to get where they are going safely and efficiently. For some that means zigzag, most that means just not biking. But to my point above, a painted bike lane next to 45mph cars is not a sufficient bike lane.
@DemonHusky @NilaJones @HayiWena How about this grand idea here (now removed) from a few years ago? (speed limit 65, people driving up to 75mph or more).

@ai6yr @DemonHusky @HayiWena

When I was young and stupid I had a route to work that required a short stretch of freeway, maybe half a mile

The shoulder was a lot wider than that

And of course PNW freeways are not like SoCal freeways, in any way. Yours have actual cars on them and stuff

Still, the places where cars are merging are the worst. Those drivers are not looking at the shoulder

(Maybe you will tell me this is not a freeway. But it's what we would call one)

@NilaJones @DemonHusky @HayiWena Yeah, that is a major freeway. I believe they removed the bike lanes after someone on a bicycle was killed. Or someone told them "THAT IS STUPID, YOU CAN"T LET BICYCLES ON A FREEWAY WHERE PEOPLE GO 75MPH"
@ai6yr @NilaJones @DemonHusky Unless there's no alternate route. Sections of I-90 in Idaho and I-82 in Oregon you get a small sign that says bikes on road. Never seen one, I guess most people who bike that way take the Washington side if they are going all the way through.
@HayiWena @ai6yr @NilaJones I've seen someone doing a bike tour on the shoulder of some interstate in Oregon, did not look like somewhere I wanted to be
@DemonHusky @HayiWena @NilaJones Folks tour on the Pacific Coast Highway (PCH) here in California, and I'd never ever ride there. So many pedestrian and cyclist deaths from drunk/inattentive drivers. I get the ocean is there... but.... too much speed, not enough margin of error.

@ai6yr @DemonHusky @HayiWena

It looks like a terrifying place to bike! It would be nice if they would do something about the section through Malibu if they are rebuilding, but I suppose property values are so high it's impossible