LOL I won't ride any of the LTS 4 and monst of the LTS3 streets here, which is where our city puts their "bike lanes". After seeing the "bike streets" and modal filters in Santa Barbara, California, I think that's the easiest way to make cycling possible in the suburbs here. #BikeTooter
@ai6yr So the thing about putting bike lanes on LTS4 and LTS3 streets is that yes, there IS a better alternative, but that doesn't mean you shouldn't serve the people who are going to cycle on those streets anyway. Invariably, people will cycle on them, so you should do the retrofitting to make them a SAFER space to do it. And last I checked, even shitty bike lanes do increase safety even though they don't ensure it. It should be done, but isn't the ONLY thing that should be done.
@HayiWena @ai6yr if it's an LTS4 after bike lanes are installed, the engineer is bad but also I don't think it's worth installing it for whatever marginal gain you got. You now put a bike lane effectively no one is going to use on what is likely the most significant road, meaning people that don't want real changes can reasonably point to the shitty bike lane and say "why bother".

@DemonHusky @HayiWena @ai6yr

Yeah so frustrating! I've visited so many towns and small cities and neighborhoods in big cities, where the only bike infrastructure was on the main drag. With cars going 45mph and nothing but paint to protect you

We need to bicyclize the small streets first, and the main drag after

In places built during the era of the cul-de-sac, sometimes the main drag is the only route from a to b. That way means we need to create woonerfs, pave the often already existing informal paths that connect one cul-de-sac neighborhood to the next

I think the reason city planners put bike lanes on the main drag is partly that it's visible, so it looks like they're doing something. And partly that it doesn't occur to them that someone might take back streets to get from one place to another

Obviously the solution is to stack the planning committees with bicyclists, and give them a larger budget than the part of the transportation department that deals with car streets

Somehow we need to convince people that the future is micromobility, and any money spent accommodating cars is probably wasted

@NilaJones @HayiWena @ai6yr it's definitely depends on location (and by that I mostly mean political will), but the best case is to do the main streets with the destinations that people are traveling to first, because if you can't get to your destination safely, you aren't biking there.

@DemonHusky @HayiWena @ai6yr

That's not how bicyclists get places

They don't go along the main drag, unless they are in a neighborhood that doesn't have any quiet through streets

And even then, they probably cobble together a zigzag route, that avoids the main drag as much as possible, cuts through alleys and parking lots and dirt trails, etc. Anything to avoid being where the cars are

After traveling a mile or two on back streets, they go the final block on a busier street, to get to the actual destination

The question is, how do we codify this and make it safer?

@NilaJones @DemonHusky @ai6yr Teens in particular are more likely to take the main drag because the only routes they know are the ones they've been driven on. Low income/under housed/people of color often take the main drag because they don't feel welcome/safe in the white wealthy burbs

@HayiWena @DemonHusky @ai6yr

Really good points! Thank you

I don't go in the white wealthy burbs myself, so I didn't think about that. Are people from outside passing through on bikes?

Maybe part of creating a safe route is letting people know where it is

And as you say, making sure it is safe for everyone!

I'm thinking about, for example, 'the wiggle' in San Francisco, which is a way of getting around the hills, staying relatively level, off the car streets, and also within the poorer neighborhoods

It's shown in a bright color on the bicycle map!

@NilaJones @HayiWena @DemonHusky @ai6yr also a minor issue with what do routing apps recommend? Some of them give dubious advice but some people follow that advice. Algorithms can follow car or strava choices, or wishful GIS annotations by local planners, or just minimize "estimated time".

@dr2chase got routed down some stairs once on a cargo bike pulling a trailer.

@NilaJones @HayiWena @DemonHusky @ai6yr

@dr2chase
lol!

I love getting 'dead-ended' into multiple disability ramp switchbacks with my long-tail cargobike & utility trailer

@NilaJones @HayiWena @DemonHusky @ai6yr