Mastodawn

May Likes Toronto Mar 21

Time to back up, export, and leave if you're on mstdn.ca
https://ottawa.place/@stephanie/116267088513251309

If you can't see the above post, here's the CBC article about the person who owns and runs the server.
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmonton/inglewood-league-lawsuit-missing-funds-9.7136933

Migration tips:
https://zeroes.ca/@StaceyCornelius/115967726861839689

Edit: These are allegations and there's a state of the instance coming up. I'd err on the side of caution and migrate early, or at least back everything up, because losing an account here kind of sucks.

Stéphanie (@[email protected])

If you're on mstdn.ca, I would save my list of follows/followers immediately and think about moving. The owner is getting sued for over 300K by his community league. I wouldn't bet on the instance surviving this latest thing 😞 https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmonton/inglewood-league-lawsuit-missing-funds-9.7136933

ottawa.place

I hate to be "That Guy" but I would remind everyone that these are allegations in the form of a statement of claim, not a finding of fact in a court of law.

As far as I'm aware we do have a presumption of innocence in Canada.

Obviously the allegation is disturbing, but I will withhold my condemnation and won't be moving instances until such time as a finding of fact is made (or at least until we see some evidence to back up the claims).

As for "he's hosting it at home" as some kind of evidence of malice, there was a deliberate and public effort to get mstdn.ca off of "the cloud" and onto Canadian sovereign servers, so I feel like this is slandering someone with their good intentions.

I note, this is not a defence of his alleged actions, merely a reminder of our professed values.

javensbukan Mar 21

@evdelen @mayintoronto Agreed. This is concerning, but allegations are just allegations.

This is a bit of a shock none the less though, and does give me concern about my data hosted on the servers though. 😬

Sometimes being "that guy" is not fun to be, I've done that a few times on here and been blocked for it, oh well! 🙃

Ev Delen Mar 21

@javensbukan @mayintoronto

Completely agree.

I'm hopeful this is a misunderstanding, or a mistake, not a malice driven endeavour.

I'll definitely be keeping an eye on the matter!

javensbukan Mar 21

@evdelen @mayintoronto Yeah. It will be interesting to see the details of this case once it comes to light.

I do not understand why an organization would try to reputationally destroy Chad like this though - what's the motive? 🤨

Ev Delen Mar 21

@javensbukan @mayintoronto

I'm not even familiar with the Neighborhood Leagues concept, let alone their scope, operations, etc.

Having been part of Neighbourhood Associations I can attest to the sometimes ramshackle manner in which they can be organized, so this could simply be a matter of poor accounting.

Given the treasurer is ultimately responsible, it's easy to accuse them. This is why I insist on 3 signature expenditures when I participate in such organizations, it helps to spread the responsibility.

May Likes Toronto Mar 21

@javensbukan @evdelen idk, it's being reported through the CBC. In previous years, I'd say that CBC did their research, but it's so hard to trust them anymore.

I'm all for giving people the benefit of the doubt, but allegations like that? I'd be inclined to leave.

Ev Delen Mar 21

@mayintoronto @javensbukan

It's on the CBC News site, yes, but it's a Court Docket Reporting piece, not a piece of investigative journalism.

A CBC reporter who's on the courts beat noticed an interesting case on the docket and reported it to the public.

Besides attempting to contact involved parties, and a successful contact of an unaffiliated third-party with broad level familiarity into the issue of Neighbourhood Leagues (Cllr. Tang), the author doesn't investigate the allegations or add any details, just "this group accuses that person of something".

In the days of old, this would have been called a Beat Article, their purpose is to keep the public informed about the goings on within certain institutions, like the Courts, rather than, say, a breaking news investigative article.

Deborah Preuss, pcc 🇨🇦Mar 21

@evdelen @mayintoronto @javensbukan that's useful context, thanks.

Ev Delen Mar 21

@deborahh @mayintoronto @javensbukan

Cheers!

To be sure, this *could* go somewhere, I'll remind everyone that Woodward and Bernstein of All The Presidents Men / Watergate fame, were also Courts Beat Reporters, and their initial reporting was simply beat reporting of the burglars initial appearance in court. However, they took it upon themselves to dig deeper and that's how we began to learn about the extent of Nixon's corruption!

Jean-François Mezei Mar 21

@javensbukan @deborahh @mayintoronto @evdelen I know nothing of the context. Whether community assoc confronted him with numbers and he was uncooperative so went to court or whether they went to court without asking him for explanation. Could be accounting error with no money stolen or he could have taken $280,000 to bring girlfriend to Paris for breakfast at Tiffany’s. Innocent until proven guilty. Unfair he’d be hurt socially if allegations are untrue.

May Likes Toronto Mar 21

@jfmezei That's what defamation counter suits are for, unfortunately.

I will say that it is rare for a single member of a board of directors to get sued. Usually it's the whole board.

@javensbukan @deborahh @evdelen

GunChleoc Mar 23

@mayintoronto @jfmezei @javensbukan @deborahh @evdelen It's prudent to export all your data now though

Jean-François Mezei Mar 21

@evdelen @mayintoronto @javensbukan

The Inglewood Community League web page has their vague side of story. Does not mention court case. Does not mention Chad's name. But they lost a number of board members, not just him.

https://inglewoodcl.com/

Inglewood Community League, Edmonton – One of Edmonton's oldest neighborhoods

Richard W. Woodley ELBOWS UP 🇨🇦🌹🚴‍♂️📷 🗺️Mar 21

@mayintoronto @javensbukan @evdelen

If it comes to it, changing admins might be a better solution than everyone abandoning the instance.

Jérôme Mar 21

@mayintoronto @javensbukan @evdelen for me it’s not about the allegations, the court can handle it.

But it’s important to know the largest fediverse instance in Canada is very centralized.

It’s not a separate non profit, all the servers are in his home and under his name (assets), he pays all the bills and collect donations under his name.

So to know that he’s being sued for 300K is important info. It’s all the same bucket. If he loses or have big lawyer fees, this is all the same entity.

Ev Delen Mar 21

@jerome @mayintoronto @javensbukan

You have a point there, and we have the good fortune of a forum being available to answer some of our questions / make some decisions around these issues, specifically the State of the Instance meet up tomorrow.

Personally, if there is a call for volunteers for replicating and distributing the infrastructure I believe I have the skills and resources to volunteer: a fibre connection, backup power, some of the technical skills...

And, institutionally, I agree that it might be time to have a discussion around setting up the mstdn.ca organization as a not-for-profit entity with a volunteer board and some of the safeguards I mentioned before, like 3 signature expenditures.

This is part of the evolution of such communities!

I look forward to the discussion tomorrow!

Joseph Simons 🍁 🌱Mar 23

@evdelen @jerome @mayintoronto @javensbukan I'm really liking this idea of repair over abandonment, perhaps with a non-profit setup. Too bad the state of the instance was cancelled.

Deborah Preuss, pcc 🇨🇦Mar 21

@jerome @PhoenixSerenity @mayintoronto @javensbukan @evdelen exactly. Those servers have no protection; they could be seized well before allegations are proven or dismissed.

Ms. Que Banh Mar 21

@deborahh @jerome @mayintoronto @javensbukan @evdelen Chad keeps lying to people (again), trying to provide false sense of unrealistic security. Straight fucking up.

Ms. Que Banh Mar 21

@mayintoronto look at all these men, defending a pathological liar!

Ms. Que Banh Mar 21

@javensbukan @evdelen @mayintoronto All of you are now - Those guys. Gross(volunteers).

https://beige.party/@PhoenixSerenity/116269738706654157

Ms. Que Banh (@[email protected])

@[email protected] Have the day you don't deserve for supporting a wankerbutternoodle & being an active ableist to boot.

beige.party

Ms. Que Banh Mar 21

@evdelen @mayintoronto He is a POS.

Daniel Brotherston Mar 22

@evdelen @mayintoronto

Are you his jailor?

I'm so tired of people pretending that "guilty in a court of law" is the only way we're allowed to have opinions about people's wrongdoing. Courts make findings about the guilt of someone in the eyes of the state justice system. I.e., the state and it's ability to imprison you is the ONLY entity that is bound to a court judgement.

So I'll say it clearly, it doesn't matter that a court hasn't made a finding yet, yes you're still allowed to have an opinion about someone's behaviour and have consequences for that.

To claim otherwise is nothing more than using a false claim (that ONLY a court can pass judgement) as justification for not having an opinion.

Ev Delen Mar 22

@danbrotherston @mayintoronto

The civil courts are a process (there hasn't been a criminal charge laid in the matter so let's set that aside for now).

The process is as follows:

The plaintiff files and serves a Statement of Claim, in other words The Allegation.

After that, the defendant files a Statement of Defense and/or a Counter Claim.

That second step hasn't happened yet.

Even if we accept your premise that it doesn't matter what the courts decide, don't you think it's fair to at least hear the other side of the story?

Daniel Brotherston Mar 22

@evdelen @mayintoronto

Fair, yes, required, no. But it's entirely beside the point. If you seek to hold an opinion, (even if that opinion is "we should wait to decide") justifying that opinion by "the courts haven't decided", you are using a logical fallacy.

"I want to hear both sides of the argument" is a reasonable statement.

"The courts haven't adjudicated it so I am not allowed to have an opinion" isn't.

I recognize that you did add "(or at least until we see some evidence to back up the claims)" which is better than most people do, but it was still added as an aside, rather than the main point. You explicitly said you withhold your condemnation or moving instances until a finding of fact is made.

Frankly, I will admit that you're getting from me a lot of my frustration for frequently hearing this opinion regarding much worse and far clearer allegations, so maybe I'm a bit more frustrated by this, than is justified by the actual situation, but the fundamental point remains, this is a common logical fallacy that almost nobody recognizes.

Ev Delen Mar 22

@danbrotherston @mayintoronto

I think what we're doing right now is hashing out the meaning and/or emphasis of a parenthetical more then discussing the main point.

A parenthetical is a word, phrase, or clause inserted into a sentence to add non-essential information, clarification, or afterthoughts without altering the sentence’s basic meaning.

Perhaps you're correct that I should have put more emphasis on that point by not making it a parenthetical, but especially given your frank admission, I think we're mostly splitting hairs.

I agree with your overall premise that, yes, we don't *need* to wait until a court has made a decision to, ourselves, make a judgment.

My ultimate point with this situation, and I believe you'd agree with me given your frank admissions, is simply that we shouldn't rush to judgment based merely on an accusation, but that we should hold our judgment until we at least hear both sides of the story.

Daniel Brotherston Mar 22

@evdelen @mayintoronto

I don't feel I'm splitting hairs here. I'm not disagreeing with your surface position, I'm disagreeing with how you justify that position. I do think it is important the reasoning you use to justify a holding a position...even (or perhaps even moreso) if I agree with that position.

But I do think we've at least reached a point where we both understand each other.

Retro Tech Shop Mar 22

@evdelen @mayintoronto @javensbukan @PhoenixSerenity @danbrotherston My opinion is that he is a POS, pending further investigation. And if we truly want Mastodon to be a better community we should listen to people when they call out bad actors.

Ev Delen Mar 22

@retrotechshop @mayintoronto @javensbukan @PhoenixSerenity @danbrotherston
If all it takes is for someone to be labelled "a bad actor" is a mere allegation...

And without yet even having made a statement in their defense...

As a former professional political operative, particularly as one who worked on the #DavidSoknacki campaign, the ability for progressives to eat their own and spit them out: the purity tests, the litmus tests, and the outright hostility if anyone should fail them, and the speed and intensity withwhich that hostility is applied...

People are messy!

Life is messy!

Ideally we'd make every decision through consensus but sometimes compromise is needed!

Perfection is the enemy of the good enough!

Retro Tech Shop Mar 22

@evdelen @mayintoronto @javensbukan @PhoenixSerenity @danbrotherston I agree with your sentiment on "perfection is the enemy of good" but women of color are consistently being ignored when they raise the alarm and if we want to improve we need to address that. That's not called perfection, that's called progress.

Ms. Que Banh Mar 23

@evdelen
Chad was busted lying about using racial violence on me/sending cops to our home. He has told multiple lies about that. I have never changed my story because I wasn't the one weaponizing cops on anyone.
GTFO with your BS.
You deserve to sink with Chad if you support someone like that.

@retrotechshop @mayintoronto @javensbukan @danbrotherston

peter (not the famous one)Mar 23

@evdelen @mayintoronto That presumption of innocence is a habit of *the courts* *in the courtroom* - not of the general public (who are allowed to use other heuristics) in public.

Were this not so, jurors would never be challenged or questioned. Hell, prosecutors wouldn't be allowed to bring cases.

Ev Delen Mar 23

@harmoniousanger @mayintoronto

In fact, the presumption of innocence only applies to criminal matters, as of this moment this is only a civil matter.

Notwithstanding, my point was that there has only been an allegation made, and there hasn't even been a statement of defence yet.

Given the news dropped on a Friday, and unless one is very rich, one would be unlikely to get a meeting with a lawyer until Monday at the earliest, we're still well within the territory of a reasonable time frame for a response, including cancelling the State of the Instance (I kind of figured that'd happen).

I'm not defending any position, I'm merely drawing attention to the process.