Mastodawn

nixCraft 🐧1d ago

systemd lost the plot a long time ago. they stopped following the Unix philosophy and now they're busy adding nonsense like age verification. Just like Firefox, systemd doesn't understand its core user base. There are plenty of distros without systemd

@nixCraft It really has been taking a very wrong direction for quite some time. Lots of bloat and unnecessary components, poor standards, etc etc.

Apparently OpenRC is a really good alternative, but it comes at the catch that a lot of stuff is built to call systemd a dependency and will claim it can't work without it. *Sigh* Hopefully all this will result in a general switch away from that hot mess and proper support from everything for, well, anything else...

bazkie 👩🏼‍💻 bitplanes 🎵1d ago

@nazokiyoubinbou @nixCraft blegh! this type of dependency on something that should be totally independent is a sign of structural failure, i suppose..

i've been a debian fanby for the longest time but maybe it's time to look into other distros. can anyone recommend me which are the most "mainstream"/well-maintained non-systemd distros?

@bazkie @nixCraft

blegh! this type of dependency on something that should be totally independent is a sign of structural failure, i suppose..

Exactly this.

Systemd has completely lost sight of its entire purpose. It should be simple, minimal, and just get the job done. It sure shouldn't become... this...

(And I too am a Debian person. I kind of don't really want to switch right now though.)

Snosrapkungfu (They/them)1d ago

@nazokiyoubinbou @bazkie @nixCraft i wonder if whatever junk theyre putting into systemd would be cut short by running the debian to ageless conversion script? i'd hope so #agelesslinux https://agelesslinux.org/

Ageless Linux — Software for Humans of Indeterminate Age

bazkie 👩🏼‍💻 bitplanes 🎵1d ago

@snosrapkungfu that's interesting! gonna give that a read later tnx

nieuemma 1d ago

@snosrapkungfu @nazokiyoubinbou @bazkie @nixCraft I don't believe that script does anything but change the OS name.

@nieuemma @snosrapkungfu @bazkie @nixCraft Most of it does seem to be just about making a point and I can't read all of it, but I do see a few lines that are supposed to actually modify the user's birth date to 1970-01-01 or blank depending on which mode one uses. (Assuming that /etc/userdb/username is correct anyway.) And for some reason it can set a script that says it does it again once a day every day. I'm not too sure it's a good idea to mess with the release name and such necessarily though. I think this one is just about making the point more than anything and should only be used by people who don't mind their system (pretty much completely literally) saying "I'm breaking a law on purpose" specifically to make a point.

nieuemma 12h ago

@nazokiyoubinbou @snosrapkungfu @bazkie @nixCraft Awesome info, thank you. I read their webpage like a week ago and it didn't seem like it changed a lot.

@nieuemma @snosrapkungfu @bazkie @nixCraft From what little I can tell it doesn't change a lot. It sets the userdb birthdate and keeps changing it and it sets the ID to its name as you said. It also throws in an arbitrary script that just simply says something to the effect of "error, unable to determine age" or whatever in a folder of its own that nothing would ever call. 😆

Basically every single part of it is more just for show than anything else. The one and only thing it does seriously I'm pretty sure people can manually do if this script can do it — without the potential breakage of the system identifying itself differently.

They also plan to do a "flatpak store for children" with stuff like an app that prints the text "peepee" really big. Like I said, it's all for show...

John Smith 16h ago

@snosrapkungfu @nazokiyoubinbou @bazkie @nixCraft

https://agelesslinux.org/distros.html

It also comes with a list of options

Ageless Linux — Distro Compliance Tracker

Bytebro 🇬🇧 🇺🇦 🇬🇱1d ago

@nazokiyoubinbou

This is almost entirely the problem at my end. I also have spent many years on various distros from Mandriva, to Magiea, to Ubuntu, to Garuda.

To the best of my knowledge all of those that still exist are systemd houses.

If I want to move away from systemd, it seems I have to go with off-band distros, but I still want my KDE desktop!

@bazkie @nixCraft

@bytebro @bazkie @nixCraft Turns out there are a few that are specifically designed to move away. I'm probably going to give Devuan a shot as soon as I can as it sounds like it's very close to pure Debian in every other way. They have a page listing several distros that are not based on systemd (or at least have an easy option to switch): https://www.devuan.org/os/init-freedom

Distrowatch themselves popped up to suggest it and a couple of others.

Welcome to devuan.org | Devuan GNU+Linux Free Operating System

Free GNU+Linux base OS. Devuan is a fork of Debian without systemd. Devuan provides a safe upgrade path from Debian, to ensure the right to Init Freedom and avoid entanglement.

Devuan GNU+Linux

Bytebro 🇬🇧 🇺🇦 🇬🇱1d ago

@nazokiyoubinbou

Very interesting, thank you. I've bookmarked that to look at perhaps tomorrow afternoon. I'll certainly try it out in a VM, if that is doable.

@bazkie @nixCraft

@bytebro @bazkie @nixCraft Fingers crossed for both of us. 🤞

Bytebro 🇬🇧 🇺🇦 🇬🇱1d ago

@nazokiyoubinbou

Currently struggling to find an actual installable ISO. If it's simply a framework that needs a distro around it, then that's outside of my skill-level, I suspect.

@bazkie @nixCraft

@bytebro @bazkie @nixCraft In installation under images: https://www.devuan.org/os/documentation/install-guides/excalibur/install-devuan#images

You probably want desktop or netinstall.

Welcome to devuan.org | Devuan GNU+Linux Free Operating System

Free GNU+Linux base OS. Devuan is a fork of Debian without systemd. Devuan provides a safe upgrade path from Debian, to ensure the right to Init Freedom and avoid entanglement.

Devuan GNU+Linux

Bytebro 🇬🇧 🇺🇦 🇬🇱1d ago

@nazokiyoubinbou

Got it, thanks!

@bazkie @nixCraft

John Smith 16h ago

@bytebro @nazokiyoubinbou @bazkie @nixCraft

https://agelesslinux.org/distros.html

Heres some options. I'm personally looking into Artix. Multiple DEs and KDE is one of them.

Ageless Linux — Distro Compliance Tracker

Bytebro 🇬🇧 🇺🇦 🇬🇱4h ago

@nazokiyoubinbou

Installed it in a Gnome-Boxes VM and not impressed with the WE. It doesn't automagically recognise my screen size on boot, unlike Ubuntu, Mint, Cachy, Tuxedo, Garuda, etc, do. And the best resolutions available in the Settings screen are not even close to what is needed.

I think this one goes down as a 'work-in-progress' for now.

@bazkie @nixCraft

@bytebro @bazkie @nixCraft That's very strange. It's mostly plain Debian in regards to things like what drivers/etc are in the stock kernel as far as I know. If plain Debian works then it should.

Works fine for me, but I have an AMD GPU which is a whole lot of Just Works™ in Linux compared to others these days. (Kind of ironic that once it was nVidia for that and now they are the ones that suck at it.)

Main thing I ran into was stuff like pipewire-pulse wouldn't work with it stock. It would need something such as that MX Linux method.

Speaking of, maybe you should look into MX Linux?

Bytebro 🇬🇧 🇺🇦 🇬🇱4h ago

@nazokiyoubinbou

Downloading MX as we speak. I'll play tomorrow, perhaps.

@bazkie @nixCraft

@bytebro @bazkie @nixCraft I'm messing around with it right now. As a warning, the KDE version uses systemd if I read correctly. You'd want to install the XFCE version. But you can then just install kde (and optionally install and switch to sddm. Actually, that may not be optional. Lightdm and KDE aren't getting along well for me anymore.)

Fahri Reza 🍉1d ago

@bytebro @nazokiyoubinbou @bazkie @nixCraft

captured