RaeAm I allowed to share this story?
"police informed him that people who shared a photo of the banner on social media could also be in breach of the prohibited expression laws."
⏚ Antoine Chambert-Loir@rae Would it be legal to say either of
“from the sea to the river”,
“in the space delimited by the river and the sea”,
“from the Jordan river to the Meditarranean Sea” ?
“from the sea to the river”,
“in the space delimited by the river and the sea”,
“from the Jordan river to the Meditarranean Sea” ?
Ray McCarthy@antoinechambertloir @rae
The original phrase was invented by people that wanted to erase Israel and kill all the Jewish people in the Middle East who didn't leave (like to Brooklyn).
Before the British in 1917 the Bedouin, Muslims, Christians, Druse, Samaritans and Jews had all lived there, which was in the Syrian administrative area of the Ottoman Empire. Hence Syria claims Lebanon, Gaza, West Bank, Jordan and Israel as part of Syria. Palestine was invented by the Romans.
The original phrase was invented by people that wanted to erase Israel and kill all the Jewish people in the Middle East who didn't leave (like to Brooklyn).
Before the British in 1917 the Bedouin, Muslims, Christians, Druse, Samaritans and Jews had all lived there, which was in the Syrian administrative area of the Ottoman Empire. Hence Syria claims Lebanon, Gaza, West Bank, Jordan and Israel as part of Syria. Palestine was invented by the Romans.
hiphopheaven@raymaccarthy @antoinechambertloir @rae the original phrase was a call for a one state solution . The only side who is in the process of exterminating the other is Israel
@hiphopheaven @antoinechambertloir @rae
Currently.
Netanyahu is a criminal.
The Sykes-Picot agreement and then the Nazis changed the pre-WWI status quo.
Hamas & Hezbollah are 100% dedicated, and always have been, to the destruction of Israel & Jewish people.
In 1948 all the neighbouring Arab countries rejected UN proposals and called for the destruction of Israel and killing of Jews. PLO used to publicly have the same view as Hamas.
Yes, Jews & Israel have also done terrible things,
@raymaccarthy @antoinechambertloir @rae
every israeli prime minister is a war criminal.
You can talk all you want about Hamas and hizbollah wanting to destroy israel but fact on the ground is that israel is the one who is currently in process of exterminating Palestine
Just look at the west bank. The pa recognize Israel yet Isrsel never stopped stealing more Palestinian land
If you want hizboolah and hamas to be destroyed there is no other option but israel ending occupation
Karl Auerbach@hiphopheaven @raymaccarthy @antoinechambertloir @rae Don't forget who blew up the King David Hotel - and a lot of British - back in 1946. It was by a group led by a person who would eventually become Israel's prime minister.
@raymaccarthy @antoinechambertloir @rae jews only had 9% of the land and it was not concentrated in the same area. That means israel couldn't be created without ethrnic cleansing. Even herzl advocated for displacing arabs. A one state solution with equal rights would have saved both jewish and arab lives.
after the formation of a large army in the wake of the establishment of the state, we will abolish partition and expand to the whole of Palestine - ben gurrion
Vinteuil (Le Temps Perdu)@hiphopheaven @raymaccarthy @antoinechambertloir @rae Sure, but no one wanted equal rights back then. Moreover, one only needs to look at the other countries in the region during the 20th century. After independence, equal rights were not particularly established, and Jews continued to face structural discriminatio
even in our current democracies discrimination exists. It is not a good excuse for Zionists who majority of them was European recent immigrants to force a state on people by mass displacing the local population. it is antisemitic two thing the two semetic group can't live together
> after the formation of a large army in the wake of the establishment of the state, we will abolish partition and expand to the whole of Palestine - Ben Gurion
@hiphopheaven "Recent immigrants" who fled Hitler in the 1930s. That’s who made up the majority of Jews in the territory by 1947. Would you have preferred they died in the gas chambers?
@hiphopheaven
You’re also mistaken. ‘Semitic’ refers to languages, not peoples. It was 19th-century racists who invented the idea of ‘Semitic peoples.’ In the 1930s, Arab ambassadors even asked the Nazis if they were targeted by ‘antisemitism’, and the Nazis explicitly said no. (Source: "Nazi Propaganda for the Arab World", Jeffrey Herf, 2009.) So stop twisting the term: antisemitism has always meant structural discrimination against Jews—and only Jews. Arabophobia and Islamophobia exist separately; there’s no reason to co-opt the term except to delegitimize Jews. And that…
You’re also mistaken. ‘Semitic’ refers to languages, not peoples. It was 19th-century racists who invented the idea of ‘Semitic peoples.’ In the 1930s, Arab ambassadors even asked the Nazis if they were targeted by ‘antisemitism’, and the Nazis explicitly said no. (Source: "Nazi Propaganda for the Arab World", Jeffrey Herf, 2009.) So stop twisting the term: antisemitism has always meant structural discrimination against Jews—and only Jews. Arabophobia and Islamophobia exist separately; there’s no reason to co-opt the term except to delegitimize Jews. And that…
@vinteuil_ltp yes i know it refer to a group of language therefore both Palestinians and israelis are semetic by language . When arab took control of the land there was no major progrom that means many ethnically jews was simply converted to Israel and was Arabized. Both people are descendent of the Cananites
Would you have preferred they died in the gas chambers?
No I preferred that they lived in peace with Palestinians instead of ethnically cleansing Palestinians to create a state. Palestinians has nothing to do with Hitler and in fact fought along the allies against the axis. It is so disgusting that you want to make me look like I support genociding jews when israel is the one right now genociding palestinians and talking about greater Israel
@hiphopheaven I totally recognize Israel is genociding Palestinians right now. But you totally idealize history. There were pogroms in Palestine too. Peace needs to be created, and it supposes to work for that.
@vinteuil_ltp i am not idolizing the history Arab definitely did wrong things and war crimes but it doesn't change the fact that Israel is the settler colonial power who want to expend in country they signed a peace deal with today. Peace won't happen until Israel recognize that occupation will only cause more violence. PA recognize israel and stopped attacking it so what should happen is for israel to slowly remove the colonies in the west bank and let PA deal with Hamas if it don't surrender
@hiphopheaven We totally agree on that
@vinteuil_ltp @raymaccarthy @antoinechambertloir @rae this is such bullshit
In 1884 the first Yemenites settled in Silwan and for 45 years lived peacefully and on very good terms with their Arab neighbors. It seemed that the people of Silwan, which was known to be a poor village, found common ground with the poor Jewish Yemenites that lived among them.
@vinteuil_ltp @raymaccarthy @antoinechambertloir @rae
Despite the attempt to depict the 1929 Arab Riot as a violent incident against the Jews in Silwan, it is clear that it was not the case. From a letter of gratitude that the Yemenite Jews sent to their Arab neighbors, we can learn about the devotion and benevolence that the Arabs have shown towards the Yemenites by undauntedly protecting them, and also about the amity and good neighborly relations that prevailed between the two communities.
@hiphopheaven @raymaccarthy @antoinechambertloir @rae Oh please, you take one example and generalize (+ you could give the source when you quote an article). And you give only one part of the story. Even Wikipedia is more nuanced than that.
@vinteuil_ltp @raymaccarthy @antoinechambertloir @rae my source is israeli not a random wikipedia page
https://emekshaveh.org/en/yemenites/
fact is the region was pretty stable until the European colonizer came and forced a state on the local population with ethenic cleansing
@hiphopheaven @raymaccarthy @antoinechambertloir @rae You know Wikipedia has sources too. That's just cherry-picking.
@hiphopheaven @raymaccarthy @antoinechambertloir @rae Yeah, the region was stable: Jews were discriminated and ghettoized, and sometimes, a pogrom was taking place. No equal rights.
@vinteuil_ltp @raymaccarthy @antoinechambertloir @rae many other minorities faced discrimination even arab revolted against the ottoman because of it
@hiphopheaven @raymaccarthy @antoinechambertloir @rae Yeah, sure. And? Does this mean that because other ones suffer, everyone must accept suffering and not complaining?
@vinteuil_ltp @raymaccarthy @antoinechambertloir @rae no, just like black people in the usa they fought for their right instead of declaring a black dominent state within the USA. You should know that there was jews who believed in that way rather than creating a state by mass displacing people back then too
@hiphopheaven @raymaccarthy @antoinechambertloir @rae Man, that's exactly the story of Liberia. And no one cared about the dramatic civil war which took place at the beginning of the 2000s there.
Yes, I perfectly know there were Jews who were thinking that, especially the Bund. The problem is that they finished in the gas chambers. That's exactly why history is useful: we learn what kind of emancipation strategies don't work, even if they are more attractive.
@vinteuil_ltp it was impossible to evacuate all jews from Germany. So many jews had no choice but to fight in Germany . In other countries non aligned with Germany they would not been gassed, they could have demanded better condition with no mass murder. As history showed us arabs population and jewish population lived together. Even during arab massacres of jews post zionism movement there are other arabs did protect their neighbors and limited the causalities.
@hiphopheaven It was impossible, but no one tried. Do you know what the Evian conference in 1938 was?
And you don't remember the Antisemitic policies from some of the Eastern socialist countries after 1945 if you believe that. Don't you know that in Poland, in 1946, after the death of 95% of the local Jews, there were still pogroms?
No, no, Jewish population and Arab population didn't just "'live together". Jews were segregated and with less rights than Arab populations. You don't want to see the pogroms in the Arab world before and after Israel (and ethnic cleaning of Jews during the whole 20th century).
@hiphopheaven I am totally sure you are good willing and sincere, but you don't understand how much propaganda there is on those topics and how much the Jewish history is unknown.
@vinteuil_ltp like in every godamn region there is period of times where groups lives together and other time fight each others. You seems to conflate a palestinians, with an arabs with a muslims. The ottoman empire was Turkish not arab for example but most progroms are blamed on the palestinians. Those progroms are weaponized to justify the colonisation of Palestinian land. Some progrom also targetted jews and other groups at same time. Who tooks some jews after the reconquista for example?
@hiphopheaven I really don't. I just say that all the other countries in the region ended in ethnic cleaning their local Jews (and this is due to nationalism, not religion). Do you really think it would have been different in Palestine without Israel?
Yeah, during the segregation in the US, you could also find some white people who protected Black people. Does that mean segregation didn't exist?
I totally recognize some countries welcomed Jews after the Reconquista, 3/4 of them went to... the Ottoman empire. You recognize it didn't really prevent the Ottoman empire from doing pogroms.
@vinteuil_ltp jews are not safer with Israel. I don't know the percentage but israel definitly contribute to antisemetism. Zionists killed multiple jews like Jacob Israel de haan, the israeli police beat up anti zionism jews in Israel, they call jews against colonization self hated jews. You can repeat how jews was oppressed which is true all you want, it doesn't change the fact israel was created by ethenic cleansing of palestinians and was the only way since jews land was disperced all over
@vinteuil_ltp Yeah, during the segregation in the US, you could also find some white people who protected Black people. Does that mean segregation didn't exist?
It means people of all religion , skin color and ethenic groups can support each others and fight together for everybody rights and freedom and can actually chsnge the leadership responsible of oppression.
@vinteuil_ltp the Ottoman empire. You recognize it didn't really prevent the Ottoman empire from doing pogroms
My point is the same empire or country at some point is hostile to a group and in another era is welcoming. Like i already mentionned Palestinians people welcomed yemeni jews but palestinians are always portrayed like they hate all jews for no reason and that there will never be a solution because of it
2xfo@vinteuil_ltp @hiphopheaven @raymaccarthy @antoinechambertloir @rae
I really feel like "no one wanted equal rights" has to be ignoring some people's wants
I really feel like "no one wanted equal rights" has to be ignoring some people's wants
@raymaccarthy @hiphopheaven @antoinechambertloir @rae If my memory serves, I think some of this began as far back as Joshua, successor to Moses, when the Israelites came out of Egypt, spent that biblical 40 years in the desert, and then entered "the promised land". Joshua was a man of the sword and, according to the Bible, he used it on a lot of the preexisting occupants of those lands.