Mastodawn

ˈdälfən™🐬 💥 🌊14h ago

It's a 'hail Mary' pass. A long shot. A gamble. Something that you don't expect to work out, but you'll try anyway.

Gurre Vildskägg 14h ago

@dalfen
Which, of course, is in turn a reference to that Mary.
But using a reference that ultimately points at the bible in no way means it has to be religious in a culture & language that's been steeped in that religion for over a thousand years. That would be like saying everyone named "Christian" or "Jesus" is named specifically because the parents were very religious, which obviously isn't so.

ˈdälfən™🐬 💥 🌊14h ago

@Gurre I hear you, but haven't read anything about the author intending to refer to Mary (Jesus' mother) of the Christian bible. Have you?

The common phrase "hail mary pass" has nothing to do with religion, even if someone somewhere says "hail mary" piously.

Using a common secular phrase does not turn the author's intention into something meant to have some sort of allegorical Christian meaning.

It seems some have converted the author's intention to something more suited to their worldview.

Geoff 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿3h ago

@dalfen @Gurre Hail Mary is literally full of Grace, the gag is right there.
The book also had other missions, by other international collaborations, that drew similar names from other religions/philosophies

@dalfen @Gurre Yes, it absolutely is a religious reference. No, that does not mean the book is a Christian allegory. It's a piece of hard science fiction that acknowledges our current worldwide culture and society, which includes religions. But yes, the reference is specifically that Mary, otherwise the gag with the main character's name doesn't work.

@_thegeoff @Gurre Okay, I can see that. So it is a religious reference meant kind of as a joke or spoof (gag) that is alluding to society and its ways, not what Christian groups are claiming that it is... some sort of allegory promoting the Christian faith.

@dalfen @Gurre Exactly. Not every person who throws a Hail Mary pass is a Christian, but that's still the etymology.

@_thegeoff @Gurre Oh definitely.
My point in posting was I had read a reference saying it was a "Christian allegory," then cross-referenced & found NUMEROUS such references by Christian sources. After reading a few articles of what Weir said HIS purpose was & reading that he was agnostic, I felt like Christian groups hijacked the book's purpose to fit their world view. I hadn't yet seen the interview someone else posted in the thread and hadn't really thought about "Grace." The gag is fantastic.

@dalfen @Gurre Hey, that happens all the time. When I (an atheist) first saw The Matrix I assumed it was mainly a Christ allegory, as well as being e great bit of SF. Later turned out to be more a trans allegory. We all read our own things into stuff, and the best pieces of work allow many interpretations.
Grace being a single surviving human of a trinity sacrificed to save humanity? Meh, yeah, maybe Weir did mean that, among other things. Good storytelling.

@_thegeoff @Gurre Yes definitely. It's a religious reference (given the "Hail Mary" etymology), but yet not because having or giving "grace" isn't solely a religious action.

I find it fascinating how people ascribe meaning to things based on their world view.

But that said, I also feel strongly that people should not make something into something it's not (or wasn't intended to be).

However, as with all great novels– especially science fiction– the meaning is often up for interpretation.

@_thegeoff @Gurre Oh that second part is fascinating. Do you have any references I can check out about its other missions by other international collaborations drawing similar names from other religions/philosophies?

@dalfen @Gurre Gave my copy to a friend, so I can't check it right now, but "Project Hail Mary" by Andy Weir is a good bet ;)

@_thegeoff @Gurre I have it. I read it. Yeah, I just scanned it and saw "Grace" and now I get the gag.

I meant if you have references to those international collaborations integrating different religions/philosophies...

Shadow, First of His Name

14h ago

@dalfen That will trigger them. 😈 Can't wait to watch it. I have the book on wishlist. Enjoyed his short "The Egg" story.

ˈdälfən™🐬 💥 🌊14h ago

@darkpixel I loved the book! And the audiobook narrated by Ray Porter!

I haven't yet read "The Egg," but I did read "The Martian" (which was
great) and saw the movie (which differed from the book in several ways).

Also, your GIF and comment made me laugh 😆

Shadow, First of His Name

14h ago

@dalfen

Animated version by kurzgesagt: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h6fcK_fRYaI

His website of the story: https://www.galactanet.com/oneoff/theegg_mod.html

The Egg - A Short Story

The EggStory by Andy WeirAnimated by KurzgesagtA Big Thanks to Andy Weir for allowing us to use his story.The original was released here: http://www.galactan...

YouTube

ˈdälfən™🐬 💥 🌊13h ago

@darkpixel Oh wow, TY!
I'll check it out later today and get back with you to discuss 🧐😁

Sharif Naas 14h ago

@dalfen People often apply their own worldview to stories. Would you have the same feelings if the movie was called Project Long Shot and people were reading in Christian ideals?

"Hail Mary" has a complex and subtle meaning by accidents of history. It came from religion, but that doesn't mean much; plenty of atheists say "oh my god". Someone reading religion into the story isn't any more or less valid because the title references a historically religious phrase.

Don't read too much into it. 🙂

https://twit.tv/shows/triangulation/episodes/428

Sharif Naas 13h ago

@dalfen Also, I'm pretty sure I recall Andy Weir saying in this interview on @TWiT with @leo that the name Grace was chosen as a joke.

EDIT: They talk about it for 30 seconds at ~3:29-3:59. Also a couple times after. Just listen to the whole episode! 😆

Triangulation: Andy Weir's "Project Hail Mary" | TWiT.TV

Leo Laporte interviews Andy Weir, author of 'The Martian,' about his new book, 'Project Hail Mary.' The discussion starts out spoiler-free with a chat about making the book

TWiT.tv