Urrgh. Ok, I desperately need sleep, and I can't sleep until I get this off my chest. So here goes.

A couple of weeks back I posted a reply about what's effective in dealing with the problem of bigotry IMHO, based on nearly half a century of lived experience,;

https://mastodon.nzoss.nz/@strypey/116038706291119626

I don't see myself as the font of all wisdom, and I have no issue with people disagreeing with me. Sometimes they even end up changing my mind (see my posts in the MeaCulpa hashtag).

(1/?)

#bigotry #bullying

Strypey (@[email protected])

(1/2) @[email protected] > You don't stop bigots being bigots. You make being a bigot socially costly. You make palling around with bigots unpopular with people who might otherwise associate with bigots This is cynical, fatalistic, and incredibly antisocial. For a start, your core premise is wrong. People can and do stop being bigoted. I've seen this myself. Daryl Davis has proven it many times. There are many other examples. @[email protected] @[email protected]

Mastodon - NZOSS

But what I got was dogpiled by a gang of self-righteous bullies. Parroting a bunch of thought-terminating clichés, and hurling bullshit accusations that had nothing to do with anything I actually said, or anything I've ever said, here or anywhere.

Life is too short to deal with that kind of networked idiocy. So I'm going to say this once, to anyone who thinks this is an acceptable way to carry on.

(2/?)

What if it was someone you care about, who you knew as a perfectly lovely person before they started hanging out on that dodgy gaming forum, or wherever they picked up the bigotry brainworms? What if it was your best friend since school, your sibling, your parent, your *child*?

Maybe then you'd think twice about whether it's good advice to tar and feather other human beings as bigots, and deny them all social contact with anyone not also pegged as a bigot?

(3/?)

If not maybe you're a fucking sociopath? Maybe you need to take a long, hard look in the mirror, and think deeply about Nietzsche's famous quote about fighting monsters.

https://mastodon.nzoss.nz/@strypey/112782360387794556

Maybe you need to seriously consider the possibility that you're in a cult? Telling people to cut off longstanding relationships with people who don't share the group ideology is what cults do. Because maintaining old relationships is how you keep perspective, and avoid getting sucked into cults.

(4/?)

Strypey (@[email protected])

One again, I think #FriedrichNietzsche's warning is timely here; "Beware that, when fighting monsters, you yourself do not become a monster... for when you gaze long into the abyss. The abyss gazes also into you." (2/2) @[email protected]

Mastodon - NZOSS

Frances Lee wrote about being excommunicated from the "church of social justice" (see the link here https://mastodon.nzoss.nz/@strypey/110789459980665321). Lee was being polite, but let's call a spade a spade; what she's describing in her pieces on this topic is a cult. A 21st century networked cult, not mindslaves in a compound, but a cult all the same.

A cult that I refuse to conform to, or make any excuses for, just became it's ideology is a twisted parody of leftist and pro-diversity ideas I deeply believe in.

(5/?)

Strypey (@[email protected])

I'm a greenie and human rights activist, with loud opinions about tech policy. My overall political bent could be described as left-libertarian or anarchist (of a vaguely Chomskian/ Graeberian variety). As befits any rational humanist who advocates for human rights, I'm very socially liberal. But I'm also openly critical of much of the strategy and tactics of "identity politics", for reasons Frances Lee explains beautifully in the links here: https://hellofranceslee.com/excommunicate-me/ This annoys some people.

Mastodon - NZOSS

The identi-moonie cult has nothing to do with real world anti-bigotry or social justice work. It's the opposite; a crucial part of the conservative-to-fascist pipeline. So I say this to the cult members and their apologists and appeasers;

Stay out of my mentions with this bullshit. Or by all that is holy, I will verbally tear you several new arseholes. I will unleash all my fury with the Useful Idiots of the world on you, and I will enjoy every minute of it.

You have been warned.

(6/?)

@strypey A cult has to be a group first and foremost.
I think what you are describing is more of a phenomenon of reply-guys who are angry because something reminds them of something they only recently deconstructed about their own indoctrinated assholness.

Behind it though, there is a big question of what you socially do with latently violent privileged bigots as other privileged non-targets of said latent violence. Can't bring them along into any safe/public spaces, that's for sure.

Only societal future I can see there is to allow them to stay in virtual violence simulators until they are emotionally ready for the real world.

(1/?)

@KarlHeinzHasliP
> A cult has to be a group first and foremost

Who decided that? More importantly, how are you defining "group" here?

> I think what you are describing is more of a phenomenon of reply-guys

It's certainly that, but the 2 aren't mutually exclusive.

@strypey The definition? I mean show me one that does not refer to a group. I usually go by wikipedia...

@KarlHeinzHasliP you didn't answer the second part of the question, which was the more important one, and all this definition-lawyering is kind of missing the point. Don't you think?

A church is definitely a group, usually based around a specific building. But I don't remember this being what people objected to when Frances Lee wrote about the "church of social justice".

@strypey I never read or cared for Lee, and no, a church and a cult are not the same thing. What you are referring to is a world view or ideology. Cults are a pretty specific social phenomenon, also about abuse and total control of the leaders over followers, usually a lot of abuse. The Mormons are a cult, and so are the Jehovas Whitnesses and the Moonies. Can't point to a Social Justice Cult by name and members... because it's not a cult, just an ideology pursued by a bunch of individuals without the cult structures of total control.

@KarlHeinzHasliP
> I never read or cared for Lee

FYI Dismissing someone's ideas without having read them is not something to be proud of. It's a great example of what identi-moonies regularly do.

> it's not a cult, just an ideology pursued by a bunch of individuals without the cult structures of total control

Your definition of "cult" is stuck in the 1970s. A lot of water under the bridge in cult studies since then. See the link I shared about the BITE framework.

@strypey Well the moonies are a cult. They have a location where they isolate people and abuse children. Idk how many of them shitpost idpol in your feed, but... as long as they are moonies, they are definitely a cult.

@KarlHeinzHasliP just FYI, parroting your own debunked argument isn't very convincing. See ... entire thread for detailed explanations and references explaining why you're wring about by this.

We're done here, and you're Muted for a month for wasting space in my overflowing @mentions.