Mastodawn

Mandy 🌼 🌷 ☀️

Another day, another instance of someone on the Fediverse telling people not to do something which is essentially a public good.

This time it's a librarian telling people not to borrow ebooks from libraries. The other option isn't cheaper, permanent physical books, I'm afraid. For many people, it's immediately available ebooks on pirate sites.

It's taken me so long to get my friends, nieces and godchildren to use Libby and BorrowBox (for audiobooks).

It is very disheartening to read something so exclusionary and privileged. I know most librarians want you to take advantage of anything and everything a library has to offer because their use justifies their expenditure.

geraldew Mar 17

@mandy am a little confused though, what was the rationale being given for not borrowing ebooks?

Mandy 🌼 🌷 ☀️Mar 17

@geraldew the waiting lines for ebooks can be long and physical books only need to be purchased once / are permanent. But library services are judged on whether they are used

Kerry Mitchell 🍁Mar 17

@mandy @geraldew ebooks delivered through Overdrive are tremendously expensive compared to print books. https://www.spokanelibrary.org/the-true-cost-of-ebooks-and-audiobooks-for-libraries/ Some people are also uncomfortable about the near monopoly Overdrive/KKR has on library ebooks: https://www.libraryjournal.com/story/could-kkrs-ownership-of-overdrive-raise-questions-about-simon-schuster-purchase

Mandy 🌼 🌷 ☀️Mar 17

@KerryMitchell @geraldew thank you for these links

So that librarian doesn't think libraries should be accessible for those of us who can't read print books.
Disgusting anti-disability stance.
I mostly use audiobooks now, both recent sight issues and the arthritis in my hands.

Mandy 🌼 🌷 ☀️Mar 17

@tiggy to be fair to the librarian, they framed it as "if you can read print books, then do". But that excludes people who can read print books but don't have an accessible library, and those who can read print books but wouldn't do so if it depended on them getting to a library

Sosha Rahab Mar 17

@mandy @tiggy i'm guessing their argument was rooted in how ebooks are available to the libraries themselves and the cost model. if so, i've heard it before, but the "solution" does not lie with library patrons. that library patrons want and need ebooks isn't a problem. a problem is greed in corporate offices, and in legislation that nothing to protect those patrons, and... you know? yeah, fuck it. that librarian should know better.

Mandy 🌼 🌷 ☀️Mar 17

@peachfiend @tiggy this is my thinking. Blame the corporates, not the individuals making use of a public service there for the public good

@mandy
I love my system's ebook services, and i borrow plenty of print books.

i do agree the business model for library access to ebooks is a bad deal for libraries (at least in the US), but that isn't the fault of libraries or borrowers

Charlie Stross Mar 17

@bomkatt @mandy It's entirely the fault of the US government for stubbornly refusing to adopt Public Lending Right.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_lending_right

Public lending right - Wikipedia

Mandy 🌼 🌷 ☀️Mar 17

@cstross @bomkatt I'm in the UK so can't speak to the US.

However, whatever the regulations in any country, there is honestly no need to shame readers of ebooks from libraries.

Whether by choice or necessity, they are reading and they are choosing a library over piracy

Jake in the desert Mar 17

@mandy 🙄 a librarian saying that is weird and highly sus

lemgandi Mar 17

I still much prefer books that don't read you back. And the whole weird artificial process of "returning" an electronic copy of a book makes no sense to me.

I just read physical books, TYVM.

Mandy 🌼 🌷 ☀️Mar 17

@lemgandi and that is absolutely your prerogative.

But having a preference for physical books doesn't detract from others' need or preference for electronic ones in the form of ebooks or audiobooks

lemgandi Mar 17

Shrug. Well taken, at least until libraries start shorting their physical collections for bits.

MooMoo the Cat Mar 17

@mandy Audiobooks have been a game changer for me. I used to be a voracious reader but for reasons, have trouble getting through a whole book now.
But since I started using audiobooks, I constantly have some in a wait queue with the NYPL. I've heard negative things about Libby as a company & how they price gouge. But I've heard from librarians that they still want people to use Libby because it shows need & use for upcoming budget discussions.
(I also keep a Kobo & Libro(dot)fm subscription.)

Mandy 🌼 🌷 ☀️Mar 17

@flowerpot I love audiobooks too and they help me to consume some books that my unquiet mind won't absorb.

I recently got a Kobo Libro Colour for my birthday and it's the loveliest thing ever. That got me on to Kobo subscriptions which I use for less accessible textbook-type books

The relationship between libraries and e-books is ridiculous currently and the idea that anyone has to wait in line to download an infinitely-copyable instance of an electronic book rather than simply registering that it's been borrowed and informing the publisher is mental.

I'd love for libraries to be awarded licences for ethical piracy, but that seems a very long way off under the hyper-commercialism we have today.

Mandy 🌼 🌷 ☀️Mar 17

@ReggieHere for me personally, I find this argument a bit weak. I used to wait 3-6 months for some books in the 90s, so waiting lines are not new.

And why should an ebook be more accessed than a physical book? If a book is popular, and a library needs ten copies, then ten copies should be purchased.

I know the relationship between author, Libby and library user is muddy AF, but I'm sure an author would rather know a library purchased 10 of their books, than 1 copy leant to several hundred people at a time

Can't disagree with most of that, and I understand that libraries are tightly bound by copyright and licensing not least to ensure that authors receive the remuneration they're due.

My question is why, as trusted institutions, libraries can't also be trusted to register usage within the existing bounds of temporary lending rather than having publisher-led control and artificial waiting lists.

Hannah Steenbock Mar 17

See, that's not how ebooks work for libraries.

Usually, they either buy a copy (of the ebook) and lend it out to one person after the other, or they have to pay a fee per copy used (Overdrive, e.g.).

It does mean that authors like me do earn a little bit from library borrows.

I saw that post, and it was a simple statement of fact, not meant to condemn people for using ebook services. But those services cost libraries a lot, and physical books are cheaper for libraries.

Absolutely, and I understand the constraints that libraries work under, but an electronic book is fundamentally different to a physical book and users being made to wait for access as if e-books were physical things is kinda nonsensical when thousands of copies exist already and readership could be measured by usage without artificial waiting lists.

Spark Purcell (they/them)Mar 17

@mandy libraries being forced to use proprietary for profit services is a problem though, as is those proprietary for profit services screwing over library patrons, and infesting everything with drm (which is a capitalist scam causing books to disappear completely forever if not profitable, an idea which CONTRADICTS the purpose of a library--to share...)

Spark Purcell (they/them)Mar 17

@mandy also it's exclusionary to expect someone to consent to yet another surveillance capitalist infested app just to read a book.

Mandy 🌼 🌷 ☀️Mar 17

@ailurocrat I know that libraries in my town have moved with the times and have managed to propose and achieve funding for many controversial things over the years, including PCs, printers, CD audiobooks, and now ebooks and steamed audiobooks. The public wants these things, and this is why they move towards them.

Many public and non-profit businesses have to engage with for-profit suppliers. When I worked for a charity, all of our suppliers and service providers were for-profit and we obviously paid staff.

Yes, there is absolutely room to improve the ebook / Libby model - as evidenced by many countries trying to push through changes to legislature surrounding how authors are reimbursed for library book purchases and also how libraries obtain ebooks - but again, the answer is not to shame readers

Spark Purcell (they/them)Mar 17

@mandy shaming readers? no, of course not. Shaming libby for exploiting libraries and their patrons? Always.