Mastodawn

This quote - aforementioned paragraph 54 - from the CJEU should be sent to Lord Reed and others of the UK Supreme Court every time they speak in public

Nicola Elle 🏳️‍⚧️2d ago

@Natasha_Jay More and more, as I look at the motivations behind Brexit and the events in its aftermath, I am left wondering if the reason people in the UK voted leave was so that they could just be a bunch of bigots without worrying about the EU.

@NicolaElle
I now think this and freedom of movement within the EU or even within a close trading relationship will preclude the UK rejoining the EU, or getting close in my lifetime.

Not the public, but the UK establishment are the issue for a number of reasons.

Isabel Ruffell 2d ago

@Natasha_Jay @NicolaElle

#Labour are the problem: their delusion that they can have close ties without freedom of movement has impeded any chances of an outbreak of serious policy.

Nicola Elle 🏳️‍⚧️2d ago

@iaruffell @Natasha_Jay. Exactly. It's SO not happening. Again, not in your lifetime, nor in mine.

Mainly because, as you say, there's no real incentive now among the establishment. I get the sense that it's becoming a third-rail now; Labour politicians don't want to discuss it for fear of alienating right-wingers that might vote for them, and anything to the right of Labour certainly wouldn't. It would probably take Labour's destruction, a Green wave, and maybe Scottish/NI independence for return to the EU to even be on the table.

No, what the UK establishment clearly wants is an FTA similar to NAFTA/USMCA: a free trade zone so it gets the benefits of unrestricted trade with the EU, but the right to be as bigoted and thick-headed as it wants beyond that.

@NicolaElle
I think the red lines on both sides will preclude rejoining the EU or a meaningful trade agreement.

Even on a first tentative step recently the UK can't accept that EU students should pay local UK university fees (about £9k pa) vs overseas rates (over £30k pa).

Labour shoot themselves in the foot. Repeatedly. On such small gives. It has to be ideological, they cannot be that dumb can they?

@iaruffell

Isabel Ruffell 2d ago

@NicolaElle @Natasha_Jay

I fear you are right. Indeed, this #Labour incarnation is way more likely to leave the ECHR THAn rejoin the EU. But I don't think it is an "establishment" thing, so much as #Starmer's dogged commitment to profound political miscalculation.

It has always been about the racism and xenophobia. The transphobia is just the cherry on top.

Sophie 2d ago

@Natasha_Jay This is absolutely why I need to stay within the EU. Obviously, anything can change, but the direction of both statutory and case law here makes my existence rest on a significantly stronger foundation than in either the US or the UK (or most other places in the world).

@sophiesometimes
No arguments from me.

Plus an EU GRC of an EU citizen must now be recognised across all member states (unsure on practicalities as this is a new ruling), again leaving the UK out on its own

Isabel Ruffell 2d ago

@Natasha_Jay

Given the settled nature of European law in this area, I have occasionally been moderately curious if #Rowling is sticking to her loudly pro-EU views, which IIRC predate her lurch into #transphobia, or whether she is just going full Farage. Though probably not curious enough to lift up the stone and find out.

Bravo Zulu #Ireland 👏👏👏👏👏

@TCMuffin
It's not news that the FWS is incompatible with ECtHR - and hence CJEU - decisions but it's getting more obvious in each case in Europe since then including a GDPR case from memory (this is why the UK imo is sidestepping putting gender on digital IDs, it would openly break UK GDPR alignment with the EU)

Lisa DiFalco 2d ago

@Natasha_Jay This matches other comments I’ve seen suggesting that the Supreme Court completely overlooked the European level legislation in force at the time.