supersquirrelThe Palestinian Genocide IS NOT US Politics OK!!!
Insanity of saying the US fueled, funded, and permitted (with the PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA even going so far as to say he will help Israel “do what they need to do”) genocide in Gaza isn’t US politics aside, why the fuck would you name your com “politics” and not allow politics from the hundreds of other countries?
Name your damn com US politics then, and maybe learn about the impacts of US foreign policy and recognize that the imperial hegemonic effects of the USs actions actually are US politics.
JFC that’s a stupid com.
It honestly hurts my brain and I would be more inclined to laugh about it if it didn’t hurt my heart so badly to see discussion of the Palestinian Genocide so clearly silenced by people like Jordan Lund.
jordanlundYou aren’t being silenced, you were re-directed to the appropriate community which is [email protected] , not !politics.
World News - Lemmy.World
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- /politics has several explicitly defined rules. Which one states only US politics are accepted?
- Why would a com called /politics not allow discussions about politics?
- If the goal is to restrict posts to us politics, why aren’t you using a com like /us_politics?
- If the goal is to restrict posts to US politics, why don’t the impacts of US foreign policy or reports on domestic coverage of US aided foreign wars not count as pertaining to the US?
- US taxes are paying for Israeli bombs used to genocide Palestinians. How is that not related to US politics?
It’s literally the first line on the sidebar:
- If the goal is to restrict posts to us politics, why aren’t you using a com like /us_politics?
Good question, the community was set up before I was brought on board, I can’t say why they set it up that way, simply that it is.
- If the goal is to restrict posts to US politics, why don’t the impacts of US foreign policy or reports on domestic coverage of US aided foreign wars not count as pertaining to the US?
Unless the news article specifically points to US policy or political action, it doesn’t belong in Politics. This isn’t six degrees of separation.
World exists for non-us World news.
- US taxes are paying for Israeli bombs used to genocide Palestinians. How is that not related to US politics?
Because no US politician or policy authorizes the genocide. That’s an Israeli war crime. The US provided funding for legitimate defense, not genocide.
You can see what they THINK they were funding through sites like this:
ajc.org/…/what-every-american-should-know-about-u…
Now, you and I both know Israel isn’t ACTUALLY using the funding for that, but that’s on Israel.
As I said in another post, the funding was done in good faith, Israel is using it in bad faith.
Because no US politician or policy authorizes the genocide. That’s an Israeli war crime. The US provided funding for legitimate defense, not genocide.
Weird, considering a majority of the are fully okay in supporting it. Hell even Kamala fully embraced it to not hurt Biden
They did not support genocide. They support Israel as a nation and there is a difference.
Too many people honestly believe Netanyahu is capable of acting in good faith, you and I both know he’s not, but that’s not going to stop those who support Israel.
They did and still do.
www.972mag.com/biden-harris-democrats-israel-geno…
politico.com/…/biden-gaza-not-genocide-israel-001…
They support Israel as a nation and there is a difference.
Yes that’s why they still keep sad the bombs are for the defensive massacres of civilians
Campaigning for an end to violence and a two state solution is not supporting genocide. Try again.
Supplying and assisting the country committing a genocide is supporting a genocide. Especially when breaking laws to continue doing it.
Try again.
Why, it’s not like you are actually going to change your mind or accept facts. This and the previous threads make that absolutely clear
You are correct, I’m not changing my mind because I am correct. Supplying Israel is not the same thing as supporting genocide. The improper use of our support is the fault of ISRAEL. Not the United States.
If I give someone $100 for groceries, and they blow it on booze, I’m not supporting their alcoholism. That’s on them for mis-spending my honestly given support.
The problem is US politicians are stuck thinking “Hey, maybe THIS time it will be different! Give them a little more!” and it never is.
But that doesn’t change the fact that the support is NOT being given with the purpose of continuing the genocide.
You are correct, I’m not changing my mind because I am correct
Which is a wild stance when even your analogy isn’t a correct equivalence.
The usa is literally giving them the weapon and cover in UN to keep committing the genocide.
The problem is US politicians are stuck thinking “Hey, maybe THIS time it will be different! Give them a little more!” and it never is.
Hey you finally see how it relates to usa politics!
But that doesn’t change the fact that the support is NOT being given with the purpose of continuing the genocide
Correct, and until the genocide is US policy, which it never will be, discussions about Israel’s illegal actions belong in [email protected] and not [email protected]
You do get it!
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until the genocide is US policy
But support of it and Israel is us policy. So yes it should be allowed
Supporting Israel is not the same thing as supporting genocide.
It is when you work to prevent any consequences to county commitng the genocide.
When the US policy is support of Israel no matter what they do then it’s supporting a genocide when Israel is committing one
It is not though. Nobody in the US (well, Trump excepted, but he’s a special kind of… special) is arguing to kill as many people as possible.
When you look at the actual policy, over and over, it’s “Israel has a right to exist” and “Israel has a right to defend itself.”
As a sovereign nation, both of those statements are true. The radical element on Lemmy believes neither to be true, which is why they will never get beyond the level of screaming teenagers. “It’s not RIIIIIIGHT!” You are correct, it’s not right. Stomp your feet more.
When you look at the actual policy, over and over, it’s “Israel has a right to exist” and “Israel has a right to defend itself.”
Again not what is happening in the area. And any country committing a genocide should lose the right to exist
What is happening is separate from the US support for it.
The US helped create Israel and as a result, no US Politician is going to walk that back.
What is happening is separate from the US support for it.
So this is the current version of _I was just carrying out orders, I had no idea what that caused! _
Nope, because nobody is ordering the US to do anything. Support for Israel is more of a knee-jerk reaction.
Or better… the old apes, stairs, banana, firehose parable…
whatsthepont.blog/…/because-thats-the-way-weve-al…
You’ve got 5 Apes in a cage,
You’ve got a banana hanging by a string in the middle of the cage,
You’ve got some stairs going to the banana.
Now, pretty soon one of those Apes is going to go for the banana.
As soon as he hits the stairs,
You take a hose and spray all 5 Apes with freezing cold water for 5 minutes.
Now, some time passes.
And pretty soon another one of the Apes is going to make the same attempt (to get the banana) with the same result; all 5 Apes get sprayed with cold water.
Now, you turn off the cold water, you never use it again.
Time passes, and one of the Apes goes for the banana,
As he hits the stairs, the other 4 Apes pounce on him and beat the crap out of him.
OK, understandable.
Now, you replace one of those original Apes with a new Ape.
After a while that new Ape, well , he’s going to spy that banana.
And, when he goes for the stairs, the other 4 Apes are going to jump on him and beat the crap out of him.
Time passes and you replace another one of the original Apes with a new Ape, who is going to go for the banana.
The other 4 Apes beat the crap out of him, right?
Including, the first new Ape who has no idea why he is enthusiastically beating the crap out of this poor new guy.
Nor, why he himself had the crap beaten out of him.
OK?
Now, you keep replacing those original Apes with new Apes until finally you’ve got a cage filled with 5 Apes,
Who have NEVER had freezing cold water sprayed on them.
And never the less…
Not one of those Apes will ever attempt to climb those stairs again.
Why not?
Because, that’s the way we’ve always done it around here…
Nope, because nobody is ordering the US to do anything. Support for Israel is more of a knee-jerk reaction.
Which is why said it was the new version of the nazi excuses. It’s much worse that the usa is fine helping and abetting.
Again your analogy doesn’t work, this time because no one is doing anything to stop them. (and really really poor choice of example doing apes in place of those in the middle east)
The ape analogy, in this instance, are the US politicians doing the same thing over and over “because that’s the way we always do it.” But thanks for at least attempting to follow it.
You can’t follow non-existent orders, they are supporting Israel because we’ve always supported Israel. Circular logic is circular. Nobody told them to do it, it’s habitual.
It absolutely needs to change, but it won’t as long as there are AIPAC dollars floating around.
You can’t follow non-existent orders, they are supporting Israel because we’ve always supported Israel. Circular logic is circular. Nobody told them to do it, it’s habitual.
we aren’t committed the genocide, we’re just preventing any other country from doing anything about it. We totally are asking them nicely to not commit it and starve people but we just can’t do anything but continue to supply them with weapons. Wait why are you upset at us!?!
The ape analogy, in this instance, are the US politicians doing the same thing over and over “because that’s the way we always do it.” But thanks for at least attempting to follow it.
Again shows you need to work on the analogies
Pretty much, yeah, we can ask Israel to stop, but let’s be real here, Netanyahu doesn’t give a single fuck about what we ask them to do.
The real solution to the crisis is beyond anyone’s will to do. Boots on the ground invasion of Israel, take everyone into custody and have full on war crimes trials in the Hague, but that is never going to happen.
The real solution to the crisis is beyond anyone’s will to do. Boots on the ground invasion of Israel, take everyone into custody and have full on war crimes trials in the Hague, but that is never going to happen.
Well yeah, because America is providing cover and preventing anyone from stopping it
The story I’ve been telling for 40 years now is Israel is bratty little shit on the playground who thinks he can get away with anything “because my big brother can beat you up!”
It will continue until big brother steps aside and lets the little bastard get his ass whipped.
Unfortunately, it’s unlikely that will ever happen.
Your story is literally describing why the genocide is part of American politics…
“Israel has a right to exist” and “Israel has a right to defend itself.”
A huge part of the problem is that both of those statements lack any specificity - we can’t even have the conversation about whether any given state has some abstract ‘right’ to exist of defend itself if we don’t really have an agreed definition of what ‘Israel’ or a ‘state’ is, what ‘existence’ encompasses, and what limits to the definition of ‘defense’ we are operating under. Are we talking about Israel the geographic region, or the Jewish diaspora? Are we talking about a democratic state with religious and ethnic equality, or an apartheid two-class system of oppression?
And that lack of specificity is almost the entire strategy of the democratic establishment and their position on the topic, and why the DNC consultant class and (apparently) smalltime internet forum moderators would rather dismiss all attempts of having that discussion
This is true, but when the screeching opposition is nothing more than “Colonizers! They’re COLONIZERS!” that’s pretty easy to dismiss.
There needs to be a serious discussion about how to hold Israel, Netanyahu, and the other war criminals accountable, but that’s beyond the scope of Lemmy and it’s definitely NOT US Politics.
In the end though, the real problem is, there is no such thing as “International Law”. It’s mealy mouthed guideline at best.
thehub.ca/…/stop-appealing-to-international-law-t…
Trump breaks international law attacking Iran.
Netanyahu breaks international law waking up in the morning.
Putin breaks international law attacking Ukraine.
Nobody is going to hold them accountable because a law with no enforcement isn’t really a law.
In the end though, the real problem is, there is no such thing as “International Law”. It’s mealy mouthed guideline at best.
Especially when the only people capable of intervening are determined to do anything but mouth meaningless platitudes, such as “Israel has a right to defend itself”, and “Israel has a right to exist”
In fairness, we aren’t really intervening in Russia or China either. It’s almost like if you have nukes nobody will tell you otherwise. 🤔
We certainly are intervening, though. If we “weren’t intervening” in Gaza in the same way we “aren’t intervening” in Ukraine, this topic of conversation would be a lot less contentious.
We’re not selling Russia or China weapons to carry out their genocides.
But keep whatabouting for netanyahu.
It is not though. Nobody in the US (well, Trump excepted, but he’s a special kind of… special) is arguing to kill as many people as possible.
Nope, they just support policies that kill as many people as possible. You’re enforcing belief in polite lies about genocide because you support genocide and nothing else in this world.
There are no US policies that state kill as many people as possible. If you have them, cite them.
Selling weapons to a country that is committing genocide is that policy.
Selling weapons, but not for the stated purpose of genocide.
You continue to confuse the United States good faith support of Israel with Israel’s bad faith use of that support.
The blood is on Israel.
Selling weapons, but not for the stated purpose of genocide.
And when it became obvious that they were only being used for genocide, biden kept selling them weapons. Even a senile old mummy like biden could tell. It was undeniable. It’s still undeniable. You banned me for pointing that out, for refusing to deny the US’ enthusiastic complicity in a genocide you support to the exclusion of everything else.
You continue to confuse the United States good faith support of Israel
It was never good faith support.
The blood is on Israel.
The blood is on israel and the biden administration. And every last genocidal piece of shit who supported biden through it.
Israel has a phenomenal weapons supply, as noted before, depending on who’s counting, they are the 8th, 9th, or 10th largest weapons dealer in the world.
They aren’t exclusively using US weapons for the genocide and if we stopped funding today the genocide would continue. Sniper bullets are cheap.
They aren’t exclusively using US weapons for the genocide and if we stopped funding today the genocide would continue.
So they no longer need out help to do the one thing you live to support. And we support them anyway.
Again, my comment and moderation history is clear, I want the perpetrators of the genocide arrested, prosecuted, and punished.
The only difference between your opinion and mine is I call the perpetrators the ones actually committing the crimes.
In your world, everyone is guilty of everything.
Again, my comment and moderation history is clear,
It is. It’s why no one believes that your moderation decisions are in good faith.
I want the perpetrators of the genocide arrested, prosecuted, and punished.
And those exclude netanyahu and his enablers in US government.
The only difference between your opinion and mine is I call the perpetrators the ones actually committing the crimes.
You know better and excuse people who commit the crimes you live to support.
We provide Israel weapons and assistance that they commit war crimes with. That’s illegal under the Laehy Law. Is that not US politics?
If an article discusses it in terms of the Laehy law, yes, that would be US Politics.
Articles talking about Israel doing bad things in Gaza, Lebanon, Golan or elsewhere without that context are absolutely not.
Again, this is why [email protected] exists.
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Current events about Israel inform my US politics. If people in this community agree then they upvote the articles. Like why are you making such a stink? Its literally free to just scroll past.
They may inform YOUR US Politics, but unless they are actively involved in US Politics, they don’t go in [email protected]
See this recent story I posted up about how AIPAC tanked the progressive candidates in Illinois on Tuesday:
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Sounds like more gloating that AIPAC buys genocidal candidates for you.
Tell me you didn’t read my comments in that thread without telling me you didn’t read my comments in that thread. 😉
I went and read them. They’re all gloating.
Spamming your excuse doesn’t prove anything except that you call “correctly pointing out the biden supports genocide” “misinformation.”
About Israel? Because I’m personally invested. I have friends under siege in Lebanon currently, so when people accuse me of supporting genocide when I clearly do not it’s very troubling.
p.s. No details, but they are safe and currently watching the war on television like the rest of us.
So because you have friends in Lebanon people shouldn’t post events in Israel to the Lemmy politics community? Help me understand here.
No, people shouldn’t post stories that are not US Politics to the [email protected] community.
International stories go in [email protected] , that’s what it is there for.
Where I’m going to be personally offended are accusations that I support Israel or the genocide when I so clearly and vociferously do not.
But just because I don’t support Israel doesn’t mean I’m going to look at a story on Israeli war crimes in a group for US Politics and go “Yeah, I’ll allow it.”
politics - Lemmy.World
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Right and Im not saying you are supporting Israel, but you can see why people are getting the idea right? Especially when you have commented on posts that explicitly mention US policy. And like maybe the politics community is US centric, but clearly a lot of community members don’t see it that way. Would it make you feel better if the politics community was explicitly international politics and we had an explicitly US domestic politics community as well?
It all goes back to the posts that were removed, they were each removed for not being explicitly about US Politics which is the stated purpose of [email protected]
They would be welcome in [email protected] where they belong, but Squirrel would rather start a fight than post to a community with almost double the number of subscribers than the group they were removed from.
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Nobody in the US (well, Trump excepted, but he’s a special kind of… special) is arguing to kill as many people as possible.
he’s the chief diplomat, and the commander in chief. the genocide is part of the us political position.
Not when it comes to the actual policy makers. Trumps tweets aren’t policy.
It is, though.
At this point it is. And you know it. And you support it because it’s genocide.
Nope, you can state a country has a right to exist while at the same time accuse it of war crimes.
Russia has a right to exist despite repeatedly meeting the genocide definition in Ukraine.
China has a right to exist despite the genocide in Xinjiang.
Being willing to prosecute their crimes doesn’t mean you also invalidate their existence.