Chris Trottier
At a certain point, someone who’s not Apple needs to get serious about ARM CPUs in laptops because the gap between MacBooks and everything else is huge.

If Windows is the blocker, what stops OEMs from pushing Linux?
Mar 9 at 6:55amWeb
Show threadKoboldMar 9
@atomicpoet Running Linux on an ARM Laptop here. Biggest obstacle are the blob firmware mess you have on the ARM ecosystem. The last firmware update in my Lenovo x13s completely ruined battery management and USB-C, which ran perfectly prior to the update.

On Windows it runs as nicely as you can #Win11 expect to run "nicely"

What would need to happen is the ARM ecosystem to open up a lot to open source development without depending on blob code.
Show threadFunamboloMar 9

@atomicpoet good question. There has been a steady increase in manufacturers that have pre-installed Linux options over the years. I think MS must be pressuring the manufacturers behind the scenes with Windows license pricing if they become too Linux-friendly.

I would personally love to have an arm64 Linux laptop that "just works". While there have been arm64 Windows laptops for a long time, they are still a rarity. Maybe that's because of all the proprietary legacy apps that only work on x86.

Show threadGaëtan PerraultMar 9

@atomicpoet a friend of mine sent me a link to this the other day.

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1947825-REG/asus_gz302eac_xs99_13_4_republic_of_gamers.html

It's a gaming laptop that is built like an MS Surface Pro, but runs a Ryzen AI Max 395+ for the CPU. It's not ARM, but at least it is something different.

I know Windows has been working on true ARM support for a long time. But I think they're in a tight spot, because if they start supporting ARM what difference is a desktop versus a laptop versus a mobile device? Honestly, I think that's already a valid question when you compare the high-end iPad over the lower end and laptops. Heck, the newest laptop announcement is a device that is technically cheaper than even the iPad Mini.

I think you're right, they need to catch up. They're just going to take some time to do it because of marketing and image 😞

Show threadFelicitas Pojtinger 🌅Mar 9
@atomicpoet Honestly I think we'll have RISC-V laptops running Linux (smth like the SpacemiT K3 except with 2-3 years of progress) mainline before we'll have anything shipping with Linux mainline on ARM out of the box
Show threadFelicitas Pojtinger 🌅Mar 9
@atomicpoet (The K3 is the first one that's competitive with mid-range ARM SBCs and older phones and the first one where the architecture has all the features for it to be competitive one day, but it will still take more time for the chip designs themselves to be actually better than ARM)
Show threadMackajMar 9

@atomicpoet

I've got a LENOVO Chromebook Plus 14" with a MediaTek Kompanio Ultra 910 CPU. It's not Apple quick, but outpaces Intel Core Ultra 5 (115U/125U) processors in both performance and efficiency. It delivers up to 18% higher single-thread and 40% higher multi-thread performance.

Certainly feels very fast to use.

Show threadAlexMar 9

@atomicpoet There's also still a massive friction point with Linux and most software that isn't a web browser that people actually use. Word, Excel, etc.

Actual humans that aren't nerds are extremely friction-averse.

Show threadChris TrottierMar 9
@alesplin I understand the point about Linux being friction, but at a certain point, a performance gap becomes its own form of friction.

The old Windows ecosystem is clearly not able to address Apple’s performance advantages. We’re talking about the M5 being 50% better than Intel chips.

Someone is going to have to take on the risk of owning a platform, or at least maintaining one.

The only two companies fully equipped for this challenge right now are Google and Valve. Everyone else is caught with their pants down, and that includes Microsoft.
Show threadAlexMar 9

@atomicpoet I agree about the performance gap, but most of the folks using Windows-based notebooks haven't experienced the gap.

So the “good enough" experience they already have is their baseline. And they're unlikely to buy even Apple notebooks because of the whole friction thing, so they're not even terribly likely to experience the performance gap.

Show threadChris TrottierMar 9
@alesplin I disagree that they haven’t felt the gaps. Microsoft forced us to upgrade to Windows 11 (I’m still sore about that). It runs like molasses on my daughter’s Intel NUC. And further updates wrecked the WiFi, and the taskbar no longer loads. Just loading up a web browser is painful as hell.

This is not a “good enough” experience.

Right now, I’m seriously considering getting my daughter a Mac Mini simply because performance is unacceptable.
Show threadAlexMar 9

@atomicpoet Like for us it’s obvious how large the gap is between Apple-silicon notebooks and "other”. Especially when you're talking about performance-per-watt metrics. I have a Lenovo monstrosity gaming notebook that is super powerful, but I literally only use it plugged into the wall to play games because of how much power it uses. And I hate Windows so much that I don't use that machine for _anything_ else.

My M1 Pro MacBook Pro is _miles_ ahead of that thing in portable power.

Show threadChris TrottierMar 9
@alesplin And my point is that regular people are starting to notice. Look at the response to the MacBook Neo. People are excited because there is no Windows equivalent.

My parents, who know nothing about computers, asked me about it. The first thing they wondered was how long it can run on battery alone.
Show threadAlexMar 9
@atomicpoet But I’d bet that the primary audience/market for gaming notebooks has not (and might not anytime soon) experienced the portable power performance gap between the best the PC market offers right now and 5-year-old Apple-silicon Macs, let alone the new ones.
Show threadChris TrottierMar 9
@alesplin I’ve largely solved the Mac gaming problem by using Steam Link to stream from my Alienware PC that has an RTX 3090.

However, on the native gaming front Apple has slowly been making gains. Apple Arcade offers pretty good value.