Mastodawn

Martin Hall Mar 9

Andrew Gallagher

“we estimate that a million satellites could mean that a teragram (one billion kgs) of alumina accumulates in the upper atmosphere – enough, alongside launch emissions, to significantly alter atmospheric chemistry and heating in dramatic ways we do not yet understand.

There is no public mandate for a single company in one country to make changes on that scale to the planet’s atmosphere.”
https://theconversation.com/a-new-space-race-could-turn-our-atmosphere-into-a-crematorium-for-satellites-276366

A new space race could turn our atmosphere into a ‘crematorium for satellites’

Planned ‘megaconstellations’ of satellites could cause unforeseen harm to the ozone layer and climate systems. Global regulation is needed before it’s too late.

The Conversation

@andrewg excuse me but one billion kg of alumina from one million satellites can only be possible if one satellite contains 1000kg of alumina. That's clearly not the case

@chebra @andrewg, well, afaik, (at least) Starlink satellites weigh somewhere from a few hundred kilograms for the earlier models to over a ton for the newer ones.

Prof. Sam Lawler Mar 9

@volemo @chebra @andrewg I co-authored this article. Starlink V2 satellites are 1250kg, and we assumed that "AI data center" satellites would have to be even larger and more complex. A conservative estimate of satellite composition is 50% aluminum. That's where 1000kg of aluminum per satellite comes from. Would be really nice if SpaceX would make these numbers and compositions public so we wouldn't have to make so many assumptions.

@sundogplanets And 100% of that remains in the upper atmosphere forever? Those are such big claims that it needs a bit more support, otherwise it's easily defeated by napkin math.

> Research shows that a typical Starlink satellite weighs around 250 kg and produces about 30 kg of aluminium oxide particles upon re-entry to the atmosphere.
https://indianexpress.com/article/technology/science/elon-musk-starlink-satellites-are-falling-back-ozone-pollution-9867500/
Far from 50%

Prof. Sam Lawler Mar 9

@chebra Yeah, if you have a lot of funding and many months of time needed ot do these calculations, you are very welcome to criticize. Otherwise, this is all we scientists can do with no funding and 30 days notice from the FCC to comment to try to stop them from approving this.

@sundogplanets I can disprove by pointing out a logical conflict much easier than that.

@sundogplanets And blocking me won't fix the math. Look if I can see this, do you think FCC wouldn't? What's the point of sending invalid arguments to FCC? There is no way it could help your cause. And worse - it's misleading your audience, no matter how happy they are to hear this.

@chebra you haven't disproven shit though, you're just wanking at the bus stop

Edit: Haha, he blocked and reported me. Not the brave boy now.

@davey_cakes And you are... what? Just coming here to be vulgar?

@davey_cakes Yeah, this bus stop wanker seems to be a glass cannon, when it comes to criticising . @chebra

food in training Mar 9

boost
parent post cw add: climate heating, capitalism

Paul Sutton (zleap)Mar 9

If a kilogram is 1000g surely a teragram is 1 billion grams, not 1 billion kilograms.

provokingcats Mar 9

@zleap @andrewg
tera = 10^12

so 1 teragram = 10^12 gram = 10^9 * 10^3 gram = 10^9 kilogram or as they say in the US 1 billion kilogram

maybe you´re confused about the way a billion is used in the US:
10^6 = million
10^9 = billion
10^12 = trillion
...

Paul Sutton (zleap)Mar 9

@provokingcats @andrewg

Ah yes, thanks, makes more sense now,

Paul Sutton (zleap)Mar 9

@provokingcats @andrewg

Suffice to say having that much aluminium in the atmosphere is not good,

Given the US/Israel have just blown up a oil refinery, the BBC is reporting how it will impact energy prices, I have seen very little with regard to the environmental impact of this, despite the huge clouds of toxic smoke bellowing from the scene.

Monospace Mentor Mar 9

@zleap "Surely", you have your orders of magnitude wrong. @andrewg

Paul Sutton (zleap)Mar 9

@monospace @andrewg

Suffice to say having that much aluminium in the atmosphere is not good,

Given the US/Israel have just blown up a oil refinery, the BBC is reporting how it will impact energy prices, I have seen very little with regard to the environmental impact of this, despite the huge clouds of toxic smoke bellowing from the scene.

Cedar Fen Farm Cedar Fen Farm Mar 9

Lets just launch elon. Problem solved.

Ray McCarthy Mar 9

@andrewg
Elephant in the room:
The USA FCC should only be responsible for USA terrestrial spectrum use and answerable to ITU for spectrum where it has an international impact.

They have no authority agreed outside USA for space or orbital or transnational travel.

@andrewg and we've not got the international cooperation & consensus to deal with it like the ozone hole in the 90s

CyclesBecauseSummerIsComing😀Mar 9

@andrewg Musk is really striving to be more evil than Putin, isn't he? #climatechange #atmosphere

@andrewg That's what's currently up there.
Now imagine that China, India and Europe want a similar network of satellites like Starlink.

Sooner or later there will be more aluminum in space than on Earth and space travel will be made impossible because of all the satellites and debris. Think of the first scene in Wall-E when the camera zooms in on Earth.

Not even mentioning astronomers, who can't seem to get a clear picture anymore without having 20 satellites blocking the view.

@andrewg Also, sooner or later the majority of those satellites will come back to Earth, burning up on reentry. The metals are not so problematic, but the electronics and other chemicals from e.g. batteries, which then stay in the atmosphere for a long time, polluting the planet.

Jungbaumbeauftragter_in_spe Mar 11

Wo führt dieses Handeln hin?

Where will this action lead? {Deepl}