SoapDogFeb 26

Lots of exciting #decentralization protocols and technology out there. Some are not ready for usage, others are not following the paradigm I prefer, I love that we're spoiled for choice.

IMO I still love #SecureScuttlebutt, for me it is still the best offline-first local-first gossip protocol out there. Yes, it has dangerous corners and design issues, but it works and I can build apps with it for my friends.

Show threadCyFeb 27
I find it has pretty intractable scaling problems. So like... it works... at first. But gets bigger and slower pretty much exponentially. What was that non-blockchain network... Briar I think?

https://briarproject.org/
Secure messaging, anywhere - Briar

Secure messaging, anywhere

Show threadStrypeyFeb 27

@cy
> What was that non-blockchain network... Briar I think?

Briar is a neat experiment, but they've never shipped apps for anything but Android. The problem with depending on one proprietary OS ought to be obvious, Goggle's recent decision to start farming Android app devs is a good example;

https://keepandroidopen.org/

So until it's cross-platform, Briar is a fun toy, but not suitable for production use.

@soapdog

Keep Android Open

Advocating for Android as a free, open platform for everyone to build apps on.

Show threadCyFeb 27
Can't say I've looked into it before. I got tired of nodejs projects back when they switched to the new module format. Good to know, at least!

In my opinion, a good project would write programs, not "ship" "apps." Dunno what one would be good though.

CC: @[email protected]
Show threadStrypeyFeb 28

@cy
> Dunno what one would be good though

Depends on your use case/ threat model. Ask yourself questions like; who do I want to communicate with and why? Are you looking for software for an existing group/ network of people who can make and action decisions about where to communicate? Are you wanting to adopt an app to make new contacts among its current network? How sensitive are the communications? Etc, etc.

@soapdog

Show threadCyFeb 28
I just use the Fediverse, nothing else seems worth bothering with. I kind of gave up a while ago. I don't have an existing group, or anyone at all really. Met some nice people on the Fediverse though. (None of them are interested in whatever network I might propose.)

CC: @[email protected]
Show threadStrypeyFeb 28

@cy
> I just use the Fediverse, nothing else seems worth bothering with

Same. Other than email and SMS, and occasional use of Matrix and even less often XMPP.

@soapdog

Show threadSoapDogMar 1
@strypey @cy the fediverse is indeed cool, but it is not the p2p I aim for. It is very costly to run an instance in terms of bandwidth and also it is server to server and that is just federation, which is cool in its own way but not comparable. It has the best of both worlds and also the worst.
Show threadCyMar 1
I'd like something like Scuttlebutt, but without the whole blockchain thing. Makes me uncomfortable that I could lose my identity if one single previous post gets lost or corrupted, so you can't delete old posts, and again checking that chain can take... a while.

CC: @[email protected]
Show threadSoapDog

@cy @strypey it is not a blockchain, they are just linked post with a digital signature.

You can delete stuff the same way you can’t delete an email after sending. It is the nature of systems in which messages fly away from your device.

Forking your feed can and might happen, there is no way around that with that protocol. It is indeed a limitation but it is quite rare.

Mar 1 at 4:45pmWeb
Show threadStrypeyMar 3

@soapdog
> You can delete stuff the same way you can’t delete an email after sending

With email you can't delete an email from other people's clients. With SSB you can't even delete them from your own. With the ActivityPub, Matrix, and many other social protocols, you can do both.

Maybe this limitation doesn't matter to some people or in some use cases, but it's undeniably it's a pretty major limitation. One of many that led to devs who were deeply in SSB moving on to other tech.

@cy

Show threadCyMar 3
Technically ActivityPub, Matrix, et al can only ask other people nicely to pretty please delete stuff. But I think it goes without saying that people don't want to run a program that lets other people delete stuff from their computers. They only do that because the streaming corporation forces them to. Or because they don't want to change the code Eugen wrote. Not a good strategy, IMO.