Mastodawn

Hail Freya, it's Friday! I'm back with a #FridayPaganPoll.

Today, I'm contemplating the ethics of cursing children. By "children," I mean teenagers in highschool, ages 15-18. I'm debating with myself as to whether they are old enough to be responsible for their own actions, and therefore old enough for consequences. (Details on specific situation in comments.)

Is it okay to curse teenagers?

Yeah, I'd curse a kid

51%

Kids can curse kids, not adults

16.3%

No, don't curse kids

14.3%

You shouldn't curse anybody

18.4%

Poll ended at Feb 28 at 3:39pm.

I mentor a high school robotics team, and one of my students is a trans boy who has been dealing with a lot of bullying at school. I'm worried about him. There is one ringleader of the bullies that has been making his life hell. Last week he shoved him against a locker, called him a fag, and tried to pull his pants down. The bully got a 3 day suspension from school, that's it. The school resource officer "investigated" the incident, but no charges were filed because all cops are bastards. Anyway, I'm thinking if the law can't hand out consequences, then maybe a witch can?

River Crow Feb 27

@Cat_LeFey no qualms about cursing bigots. Like, high school is old enough to know better so yeah, fk around and find out time.

mirabilos Feb 27

@Cat_LeFey @therivercrow maybe something educative? That makes them stop and reflect?

@mirabilos @Cat_LeFey @therivercrow maybe that's the "find out" bit connected to the fucking about?

@robincrow @mirabilos @therivercrow Oh, I bet I could make a sigil from the phrase "fuck around and find out." I wonder if anyone has done this 🤔

@Cat_LeFey @mirabilos @therivercrow I mean if Laura Tempest Zakroff hasn't, I'll eat my hat.

Leianora Feb 27

@Cat_LeFey Go for it! Karma can be such a bitch sometimes, but he deserves it!

David Bridger has moved Feb 28

@Cat_LeFey I see each situation in its own context. For this one, I'd curse the offender.

Lydia Vvinters Feb 28

The severity and shape of the curse should match, keeping in mind their age.
A well aimed and crafted curse can also teach, and offer insight. You might actually give these bullies a chance to better themselves this way.

Which is why I would take the opposite approach and aim to empower the victim. There will always be a next bully for this person, so I'd focus on strengthening an aura of empathy around the person.

Or, do both.

Keri Svendsen Mar 1

@Cat_LeFey Do it!

@Cat_LeFey I'm personally partial to curses that perpetuate themselves on the actions of the cursed. They could get out of the curse at any time, but they keep choosing the curse.
These typically tend to be in line with the 'encourage things to act in their existing nature' line of magical reasoning.

Ash-Miw-Re Feb 27

@Crazypedia @Cat_LeFey That's what I do if I'm going to curse anyone. Built-in off-switch, just stop doing the thing where you pissed me off.

@Ashmire @Crazypedia Yeah, that's a good idea, like some kind of magickal restraining order where if they stay away, they won't be effected.

Willow (she/her)Mar 1

@Crazypedia @Cat_LeFey that's my curse mo too. I'm rather fond of mirrors. If target isn't sending nasty energy into the world, then they're fine. If they are... It's getting marked return to sender.

The VHS Wizard 🦝📼🧙Feb 27

I voted "Kids can curse kids, not adults" for this reason:

Curse an asshole teenager and he has bad luck or whatever for a day
Teach the people he is bullying how to curse him, and they can ruin the rest of his life

@thevhswizard lol, perfect!

@Cat_LeFey not even pagan or adjacent but if I thought it would work hell yeah i'd curse kids
I received enough shit as one to not have any fondness for them

@wyatt I can get that, I think sometimes curses are more for the person sending it than the person being cursed. It's a way to feel like we're doing something, and can be empowering even if one doesn't necessarily believe in the efficacy of magick. Like even licensed therapists might recommend writing a letter and shredding it or something, or screaming into a pillow or whatever, it all depends on how you look at it.

@Cat_LeFey Yeah, and from that vantage point I would absolutely curse a bully and wouldn't feel guilt in it (probably even if they got hit by a truck next week :\)

@Cat_LeFey I don't think you should curse anyone. Ever. There should be consequences, yes, and stronger ones . But something clearly related to what they did, so they will actually make the connection and stop the behaviour. Karma can do the rest.
If you wish to do magic I'd stick to protection.

Simon Ashcroft Feb 27

If a curse is part of your practice, then I see no issue. There is no way the offender you describe does not know he is causing misery, and is responsible.

If the principle of a curse bothers you, don't do it. That will become an act of self harm.

@SJAsh_03 I have sent out a few curses in my day. I've never had any qualms about it, mostly because I just don't think I'm that powerful. Best I can do is inconveniences, not real harm. I believe that if us witches could actually do real damage with a curse, then a certain orange clown would not be here, eh?

Simon Ashcroft Feb 27

If that is correct,I suppose the question is: "Why bother?"

My own view is likely a touch unusual. A curse rides the wave of reality and is constructed as esoterically or mundanely as required.

The surest method, in many instances, may be to start a rumour...!

David Bridger has moved Feb 28

@Cat_LeFey @SJAsh_03 I believe the presidential child rapist has been and continues to be damaged by curses of many witches worldwide, while being protected to some degree by other witches and at least enough to keep him in power for as long as possible. It's a war.

Simon Ashcroft Feb 28

We have our own frog faced right-wing bundle of ambition waiting in the wings as well. The war is international as much as inter-dimensional (if that is the correct term).

We seem to have got a little further with discomforting the pædos over here, though.

David Bridger has moved Feb 28

@SJAsh_03 @Cat_LeFey Indeed. The enemy isn't tied to national lines or loyalties. We could take a leaf out of their book in that regard.

Elise "yuuana" Moreno 🪷Feb 28

@Cat_LeFey
Living on cursed land (cleansing is a process), I have a complicated relationship to curses. My practice isn't against them in theory, but I'd wobble a bit more when the target's under 16. I'd be more likely to pray for karma to catch up with the teen sooner rather than later and leave the matter in the hands of the gods, just in general.

Elise "yuuana" Moreno 🪷Feb 28

@Cat_LeFey
That said, in this specific case, I'd be more likely to ask my guardian to keep an eye on the kid being bullied and do a binding with thorns on the bullies. FAFO and all that

@Cat_LeFey Congrats. I have no idea how I would answer this poll. Just speaking for myself, I’d personally hesitate on directly throwing curses at teens because there are often unseen abuse or neglect issues, (I count unhealthy lack of limits and parental teaching as neglect), that create bad or missing coping tools. All of this can be a recipe for a bully, and all of it could be exacerbated by my actions. I think it would depend on the case, the offense, and how much knowledge I had of the person doing harm. Also? In this case, this bully deserves much stronger consequences than he’s getting. Here’s what I think of when I think of results.
1. Protection for the bullied teen to insure he has strong queer support and affirmation. Maybe he lucks into some free and kickass self-defense classes along the way.
2. Protection for the bullied teen that make the bully’s harassment attempts fizzle unnoticed, or backfire in ways that are harmless yet humiliating for the bully.
3. The bully loses out on advancement opportunities with full knowledge of why. Guess what, bully. You don’t get that juicy sports/engineering/business/whatever scholarship because little birdies told/showed the right people how you treat classmates.
4. The bully loses out on social opportunities. Hell no I don’t want to hang out/date/whatever you Brad. I know what you did to Sean. You’re an asshole. Cut the shit.”
5. The bully gets witched into counseling with the right counselor and works on his bullshit.

That said, here’s what happens if I answer with my gut. Protect the bullied teen and curse the bully’s parents. They’re the ones who, quietly and loudly, taught him this shit. Don’t like it? Don’t raise a bigot.

@Sklent ah, that's a good point, I didn't think about throwing something at the parents too, but yeah, that could work