return2ozmaScoop: Dems working on secret report found Gaza cost Harris votes
TropicalDingdongThe report: everything we were screaming into the void from 2023 till 2024.
The report is moot other than the fact they trying to bury it because anyone with two twigs to run together knows the answer, knew it before it happened, knew it while it was happening, and knows it now.
Trump was easily beatable in 2024 and Dems blew it at every turn.
You want to see the roadmap for beating Trump?
Sort c/politics by controversial and read the top five threads of comments.
It’s all there in black and white, in no uncertain terms. And the shitlibs who insisted we take the worst strategy turns possible (and advocating for them in those threads)…they mostly jumped ship (santanko and squid being notable examples).
It’s also worth nothing how many voices who go their analysis at the time basically correct at the time it would have mattered, how many of them are banned from politics as a whole. There was a clear moderation effort made to cultivate a specific type of conversation here.
LemmyBruceLeeMarvinIf genocide isn’t a red line then there are no red lines, every lib that voted for blue no matter who should be in the Hague along with the rest of the murderers
Man… how many bricks to the side of y’all’s head do we have to take to get you to understand that a) an election isn’t about individual choice, and b) telling people what to do with their votes is counter productive.
If you were doing in 2023/24 what you are doing now, with that comment: Your why fascism won.
Saying something over and over doesn’t mean its true.
That said, I hate both the DNC and the non-voters. I can do both. If free will exists, then I can blame both. (I mean I don’t believe in free will, but on an emotional level fuck both anyway, I don’t owe either of them shit.)
ClassStruggleYou hated the DNC so much you voted for them and defend their actions tooth and nail?
I voted for them for tactical purposes. Both because at the time I cared about the well being of my fellow human beings and I care about my own well being. These days I’m not so sure I care about humans or even myself. I’m still grappling with the point of it all now that we’re doomed.
I understand that tactics aren’t likely your strong suit, so let me make it clear: I do not have to love the democrats as a party to vote for them. I just have to have a basic grip on reality that it was either them or fascism. Because its first past the post we are dealing with.
You either don’t understand what tactics mean or you have some really Pepe Silvia shit to share with me.
Ah yes, because giving Trump the win instead has ended genocide and improved the lives of millions
I am saying that objectively looking at the outcome of the election means that running and supporting a pro genocide campaign was a tactical and strategic failure. You shouldn’t do that in the future.
Jfc you idiot. YOU STILL GAVE TRUMP THE WIN!!
CileTheSaneEveryone has lost, and there’s more genocide.
Well there’s the same amount of genocide. But yes, we agree, and that means voting this way was a tactical and strategic failure.
Same amount in Gaza, more in the US.
So you don’t understand what tactics are. Or at least are pretending not to.
Tactically, it meant I reduced the risk of Trump winning. Him winning doesn’t mean abstaining from voting would have achieved that ends better.
You think this is some kind of gotcha, but you are still just demonstrating a lack of understanding of what tactic’s mean. You can make tactically sound actions and still lose you fucking idiot.
It’s not a “gotcha”. If your goal was to vote out trump, you failed. That tactic did not work. How you evaluate that as tactically sound, I’m not sure.
Furthermore, I think your tactic leaves you in a strategically untenable situation.
The alternative tactic… also would have resulted in Trump winning.
Like what, spit it out. What other thing? Hmmm? HMMMM?
I’m guessing you can’t. If its what I think you are suggesting, why should I serve accelerationists? Why should I help them? I fucking hate them. They’re literally working to engineer this result. They wanted this result. FUCK THEM. I hope the leopards eat their faces.
Lol.
Friend. I spend all of my time organizing and working with my community. The only way out is through. And the only way through is building strong communities.
You should adjust your attitude. There are many good people doing good work on the ground.
I used to do the same. I guess technically that’s part of why I have the job I have. I applied because it seemed socially meaningful.
The people around me all think I’m a sweetheart and I’m just fucking dead inside.
You know, I met 2 people at a bar I frequent who literally told me they were lefty accelerationists. That they try and purposefully push people to revolutionary potential, even if it means making things worse first. They were happy Trump won. To be honest I was really shocked to meet any in person. I thought they were all online mentally ill ML’s. They’re long time regulars at the bar, and friends to each other. I had seen them a number of times over the past year but this recent interaction was the first time I talked to them for any real length of time.
Ones a mechanic and a unlikable music snob. The other is squatting and seemed like the sort of person who was barely literate by choice, and was mostly just repeating what his friend believed.
I felt like, after they told me that, I had to steady myself. I was quite drunk and it took some will to not start getting openly aggravated. I just calmly told them bits of my own perspective and experience. It made them at least uncomfortable I think because they became very quiet.
I’ve not had a chance to talk to them again yet, just momentary "hey man"s and waves. I will eventually though. I have so many questions. I don’t know that I’ll like the answers.
Maybe I’ll end up dead in a gutter because I got caught up in a stupid bar fight and got stabbed or some shit. lol
it was either them or fascism
Who do you think helped prop up and build the foundations for fascism? That’s what your tactics resulted in.
There are many ways to interpret this response. Some are reasonable (HRC did pied piper because she thought it’d help her win) and some are unhinged and stupid (Liberals are fascists).
My tactics were to vote in primaries (when they were available…) for progressive dems. I voted for Bernie Sander’s twice. But then I voted HRC and Biden, and Harris when they were the liberal slop candidates that we got. Because the alternative was helping a fascist win.
My tactics were to canvass, advocate, donate time and money to progressive causes. And when the progressives did not fucking win the primaries, I gritted my teeth and did the same for them.
And you know what, sure. Those tactics failed, because US citizens on average are completely selfish and stupid pieces of shit. I don’t owe your glorious revolution my life. I did not choose to be here in the hellscape, that your own advocacy helped create.
You should evaluate your tactics and evaluate the limits of electoralism then. And you should adjust accordingly.
I am not going to fight and die in your stupid dumb fuck revolution (that will happen any day now I’m sure).
My tactics have changed: Understand that I can’t fix things. That I am wasting my short life trying to. Its time to seek the most pleasant oblivion.
My revolution? No one is advocating for a glorious revolution. You’re learning about the limits of electoral politics in a capitalist system. Your solution to this is to give up? That’s your right if that’s what you want.
But I don’t think you’ll actually have a choice about dying in this way.
And I think if you’re going to just give up then telling others how to vote is pretty rude.
Give up on politics in any productive sense yes because its wasted my time and energy. It still is, I’m mostly just indulging in a habit at this point.
I’d be happier just going back and hanging out with normies and never discussing politics again. I’d be happier. I’d probably be wealthier and healthier had I been doing that for the past decade and a half of my life.
People like to joke that “liberals just want to go to brunch” and you know, I’m not a liberal (I don’t agree with private ownership of the means of production) so I never really did that. I obsessed over shitty liberal rule and criticized them. But next time the libs take control (and the dems will eventually, the electorate loves to panic vote), I’m going to actually do that. I’m going to do the thing you accelerationists accused me of doing. Make sure I save up during the 4 or so years of mild stability, and go to some other country that isn’t fucking stupid.
Maybe I wont live lavishly, moving is expensive, but I’m not sticking around to help people who gleefully dragged me into bullshit. And I know I’m not the only person thinking this.
Just a total waste.
I understand the despair. And the desire to flee. And the desire for normalcy. I, too, could choose brunch, even now under the trump administration. I can also afford to flee.
But I don’t and you shouldn’t. We must build a better world.
As long as I have strength, I will work to build that vision here, in my home. With the friends and neighbors I’ve cultivated.
The revolution is going fine. 2 years ago around here, and on all social media, Democrats and Biden could do no wrong. Biden could provide the weapons to kill 10k children and Dems would still back him. Fast forward their polling numbers are in the tank, public acknowledgment that the party and it’s candidates are shit and they are tired of the same old failed policies and tactics. ‘Lesser evil’ is unacceptable because it’s not lesser.
So wait, are you saying a violent rebellion is going to happen? You actually believe that we’re on track for that?
And you think the mass death from that is going to be a good thing.
I’m going to give you an actual answer.
The federal crackdowns will breed resistance.
Resistance will cause the fascists to use more brutality. It is all they know how to do.
What do you think is going to happen? There is no vanguard or army to fight against the state abusing it’s people.
Well, ok you are a different person that I was asking. I was asking because I assumed they were accelerationist or something.
Where did I imply violent rebellion? Revolution isnt always violent, there will be violence because that the only language the state understands, and we are subjected to state violence every day of our life. Poverty is violence, homelessness is violence, no access to healthcare or education is violence. Violence isnt just physical, its also economical, physiological, verbal, and sexual.
We have not won a single right in this country without some sort of violence inflicted back at the state.
So you did what they wanted you to do, vote for the sheepdog in the primary to give you the illusion of choice and progress, they push the sheepdog aside and you are forced to vote for the candidate they wanted you to vote for from the beginning.
The only failed tactic is liberals using the same failed ones over and over, thinking this time has got to be different.
Yeah man its all just an illusion right. All the leaders are coordinating in perfect harmony to manipulate me.
Biden, in his demented state, purposefully selected Harris to serve the interests of capital… and not his own ego because she was his VP. He wasn’t insulted at all when they finally started to insist that he move aside and pick the least charismatic fucking option imaginable as a fuck you to the rest of his own party.
You know… sometimes people in power are just fucking stupid flawed narcissists. Just like the average dipshit voter is.
There hasnt been a single democrat primary candidate thats won California and lost the party nomination until Bernie in 2020, and the party knows this. Thats why all other candidates dropped out around Super Tuesday and endorsed Biden to manipulate public perception on the best viable candidate.
Your choice was selected for you.