return2ozmaScoop: Dems working on secret report found Gaza cost Harris votes
TropicalDingdongThe report: everything we were screaming into the void from 2023 till 2024.
The report is moot other than the fact they trying to bury it because anyone with two twigs to run together knows the answer, knew it before it happened, knew it while it was happening, and knows it now.
Trump was easily beatable in 2024 and Dems blew it at every turn.
You want to see the roadmap for beating Trump?
Sort c/politics by controversial and read the top five threads of comments.
It’s all there in black and white, in no uncertain terms. And the shitlibs who insisted we take the worst strategy turns possible (and advocating for them in those threads)…they mostly jumped ship (santanko and squid being notable examples).
It’s also worth nothing how many voices who go their analysis at the time basically correct at the time it would have mattered, how many of them are banned from politics as a whole. There was a clear moderation effort made to cultivate a specific type of conversation here.
LemmyBruceLeeMarvinIf genocide isn’t a red line then there are no red lines, every lib that voted for blue no matter who should be in the Hague along with the rest of the murderers
KoboldCoterieWell, I suppose you’re welcome to your opinion, even if it’s an absolutely horrid one.
Youve convinced me. Voting FOR genocide was probably the best solution
Ah, yes. Because that’s the most objectionable part of that opinion, not ‘We should jail people for their voting behavior’. Can you get any more authoritarian?
Edit: But sure, if that’s where we’re going, I’ll bite:
It was a two party race. There were no other viable candidates. You didn’t vote against Trump in any meaningful way; you did nothing to prevent our current situation, and that’s a pretty wild stance to be defending.
no other viable candidates
But there were other candidates that I actually like. Claudia de la Cruz, for instance.
All your candidate would do is kick the can down the road for a few years before “the most important election of OUR ENTIRE LIVES” happens again. I’d like to vote for someone I actually support before I inevitably get my throat slit by some SS whackjob, you know?
She wasn’t “my” candidate, any more than Donald Trump was “your” candidate. I voted against Donald Trump. Folks who voted third party didn’t do that. They may not have voted for him, but they didn’t vote against him.
If Kamala Harris wasn’t against the genocide, a vote for Kamala wasn’t a vote against Trump, or fascism or anything else.
Kamala wasn’t going to win while supporting the genocide. Period. It’s not a debate. Voting for her wasn’t a vote against Trump because with her holding that stance, she couldn’t beat Trump (which is objective reality:she didn’t beat Trump).
So, instead of ‘not voting for genocide’ you voted for ‘genocide and the complete destruction of your own country, too, as well as international destabilization, giving foreign actors free reign to your country’s classified information, and removing healthcare and vaccine mandates so that millions more will suffer and die.’
Damn, you saved the world
You have a mental disorder. There’s no other words for it at this point.
We’re talking about structural issues with how elections work and what it takes to win them, and you keep trying to insist its about the individual choices of individual commenters on an obscure social media platform. Its literally fucking maddening.
But thankfully, no one is taking you or your side seriously anymore.
No, you’re right that there are horrific issues with the way the electoral college is set up and how the voting system works. First Past the Post is a joke.
What makes you insufferable and an obvious moron is acting like not voting or voting third party in the last election was some moral highground and made everything better when in reality: no it didn’t. There need to be sweeping changes in the electoral systems, absolutely, but not voting for Harris was just giving Hitler2 a better chance of winning and if you can’t comprehend that, you’ve damaged your brain by huffing your own farts too much
You are literally projecting shit I’ve never said and arguing against it. You are litterally arguing against shit that has only happened in your imagination. That’s a mental disorder.
I’m making a narrow, positivist case for what Harris needed to do to win the election. Democrats DID NOT NEED TO LOSE THE ELECTION!! That’s the entire fucking point, and that blaming voters contributed to Democratic defeat, and continues to undermine Democrats ability to win elections.
I don’t give a FUCK that you find the fact that you are fundamentally wrong in your understanding of what elections are insufferable. If you are blaming voters, you are the fucking problem.
CileTheSaneWe’re talking about structural issues with how elections work and what it takes to win them, and you keep trying to insist its about the individual choices of individual commenters on an obscure social media platform. Its literally fucking maddening.
Higher up in this thread:
every lib that voted for blue no matter who should be in the Hague along with the rest of the murderers
amorpheusTell that to all the people IN FUCKING CAMPS right now. I bet they would’ve loved a few more years of freedom. You talk in hypotheticals about what might happen to you, meanwhile it is not hypothetical for many of us.
Fuck your academic bullshit. You don’t give a flying fuck about anyone but yourself and your little ego.
Shouldn’t you be organizing so your people don’t get easily abducted by some psycho cops? Or if you’re not planning to do that, getting your asses out of the country so the psycho cops can’t find you?
I was proud when I saw that the people of Minneapolis could call in some people to come help if ICE was spotted on the prowl. Those guys know how to take care of business.
But then we’ve got the Blue No Matter Who folks who think the feds will put a stop to the madness if they just vote a little bit harder. It’s like you could have a family member of yours be dragged into a black van right in front of you by ICE and all you would say is, “Oh, I’ll call my congressman to secure your release! Yeah!”. Compared to doing everything in your power to rescue your family member, even if the cops execute you for it.
They lost by 1% so that makes them non-viable? How does this blatantly stupid garbage get upvotes?
It was a two party race.
Wrong.
You were just fine with genocide as long it targeted black people and Latinos in America and not Palestinians.
Oh wait they’re targeting Palestinian immigrants here too. Fucking traitor.
The real issue with you people it’s that you don’t actually care about anyone but yourself. It’s all about your pathetic EGO and being right and not protecting people to the best of your ability.
Fuck every last one of you third party ICE-loving traitors.
I voted party. The allure of being hated by the entire country for my voting decisions is too compelling to pass up.
So did I. And if the rest of the lib population had any actual ethics third party would have won
You mean Jill Stein who shows up ever 4 years, runs for the president, siphoning off 2 to 3% of the liberal vote over a single issue, collects a check, and then disappears for 4 years. That’s not a real third party, that’s a grift.
ClassStruggleShe can’t siphon votes that were never going to the DNC to begin with. Where’s any of the DNC leaders right now when we have ice arresting and killing citizens, trump running all over the constitution, a house rep tweeted today that someone should tell trump to do his job, and if she’s not that someone elected into office to do just that. Jill on the other hand is actually attending protests in support of the working class.
Where is she now?
Was last in Wisconsin protesting against ICE. Trump is beating the drums of war, where are democrats that are actually in office that can stop it?
Article. Proof that she was there. I just searched Jill Stein Protest, Jill Stein News, Jill Stein ICE protest, on 2 different search engines and got one news article that was from the Daily Kos asking where is Jill Stein.
So unless you can provide independent verification, I don’t believe you.
Still voted for a con artist.
No you didn’t. In a 2 party system that’s not how this works. You basically became a no vote and in a 2 party system, a no vote helps the party you don’t want the most.
So what happened 45 became president and you got a even worse genocider.
Do I like that my choice was a little genocide or a lot of genocide? No
And I’m glad your feelings are soothed because you didn’t vote for genocide, but in the end did your vote help the Palestinian people of Gaza? NO
In fact your vote probably made it worse
I really enjoy when you libs explain a 2 party political system to me. Thank you!
I don’t know if you’ve noticed but in the latest round of genocide, the vast majority of killing and damage was done under the democrats.
It’s disgusting you appeal to the suffering of Palestinians to support your candidates who enabled the suffering. It’s honestly the craziest argument liberals pull out. There’s mass graves of babies in Gaza delivered by the weapons your president sent to a genocidal colonial project. And you have the nerve to say that my vote made it worse.
One not a liberal. Was in the green party until Jill Stein. I like the Greens when you would see them running for all different offices, not just president. Also most greens caucused with Democrats
Since you voted for Jill Stein, I figured I had to explain how 2 party system voting works
The current president wants a golf course named after him on the ruins of Gaza. Eric is negotiating the real estate deal. Historically, Republicans help Israel more than Democrats.
The attack happened a month and a year before the elections most of the armament deals had already been done. what did the Republicans in Congress say? What did 45 say ?
We saw in the Ukraine war when 45 stopped weapons shipments illegally, and 45 got impeached for that
Only Congress could stop those weapons and honestly AIPAC is the biggest stumbling block to Congress doing anything
Harris several times had to say the political thing, respect Israel right to defend itself, but protect the innocent lives of the Palestinians in Gaza. But there was a group of protestors following her around everywhere, even at her book signing about her experience running for president when there was nothing she could do about it almost a year after the election? Why are there not protesters at 45 all the time about Gaza and the Palestinian people?
Remember that the Republicans have paid people to show up at their opponent’s rallies just to ask questions like what about Palestine.
Also Jill Stein with no chance of winning. She wasn’t even on the ballot in all 50 states. She could make the statement that would soothe your soul, because she wasn’t going to win. You could have written in Santa Claus and been just as productive.
So yes you could have voted for someone to soothe you conscience which lead to a Trump owned golf course on the former Gaza strip or you could have voted for someone that would have tried to make it less worse
Yeah I like my conscience soothed lol. Lol.
Well maybe the democrats will learn something. As for my vote being productive, you can look at the vote count for Jill Stein and know that I took my ballot, filled it out and walked down to the box and dropped it off. And you could have had my vote except genocide was too sweet.
Condescendingly explaining how us politics work I think was the strategy in 2024, you should keep doing it, I see your party is having great success with that approach. Try the unelectable approach for anyone left of reagan too, that one has a consistent track record of success too.
Again not a Democrat. Just knew what was going to happen under 45 and that voting for Stein would lead to 45 being president again.
That the genocide in Gaza would be worse under 45. Which it is
Like I said Stein wasn’t on the ballot in all 50 states and couldn’t win
You just want to be smug and happy in your sheltered position thinking the election was an aristocratic squabble and you farts don’t stink
Not what us election are now, a dirty fight in the gravel lot outside the local bar.
And if it all falls down and we turn into fascism you know your smug vote for Stein won’t get you any favors except you feeling superior than everyone.
Again my vote went to who I though had a shot at beating 45 and in turn helping Palestinians in the long run as again 45 was would be worse and Stein couldn’t win . Or I’m arguing with a bot or agent out of Africa, the middle East or Russia
This is historically illiterate nonsense.
Calling me smug is pretty rich.
What I want is a actual good policy.
You want actually good policy then vote for people who can actually win, because if you don’t win you can make policy.
It one thing to vote for the greens if your in a state that is safe and might help them get 5% to get some national recognition. I can actually respect that kind of thinking. Problem is that was not the case at all.
There are only 2 reasons to vote for Jill Stein was to be a smug person in their safe tower saying, “I couldn’t vote for someone committing a genocide.” When everyone knew that 45 would make things worse. Or you’re a conservative who couldn’t stand not voting and couldn’t vote for 45 so you did the next best thing
And honestly at this point your a bot or a front because you addressing nothing. Your argument is full of more holes than a colander. Maybe spend some time thinking about how to use your vote to strategically get policies you want.
Lol good lord you’re so boring and stupid. I’m not voting for your dumbass candidate. Not a liberal, votes and supports liberal genociders.
Again Third time not a liberal or a democrat. My political views are not reflected in the current US political establishment, but I will say a 10 mile walk is shorter than a 100 mile walk
You really don’t read which at this point isn’t surprising then again your translation program is probably horrible on big words.
Personal attacks mean nothing you know you can stop at any time .
Genocider is not even a word.
Also I notice you never addressed the fact that I have asked 3 times.
Are the Palestinian better off with 45?
Again you stated you voted for Stein because of policy, but you knew she wouldn’t win. So I think you just wanted to feel smug saying you didn’t vote for genocide, but your actions have lead to 45 and a golf course on the rubble of Gaza named after 45, so a worse genocide.
Is it hurting you to remind you your vote to has lead to a worse outcome for the Palestinian people, like all the leftist warned you about?
Your inaction, when you had the chance, has turned your vote into one of genocide.
You vote has lead to a genocide of undocumented people in the US
Your vote has lead to at least 2 murders of US citizens on the streets of Minneapolis
In your effort to be holier than everyone else, your smug demeanor, and state you didn’t vote for a “Genocider” has lead to worse atrocities.
But I’m even starting to doubt you voted for Stein as I’m not sure if your in the US.
Also most of the people I know who are greens are leftist and I never hear leftist refer to liberals as libs only conservatives
I’m genuinely curious: do you think you’re making a point? This is like the most boring dumbass msnbc talking point. You say I’m smug which is. I can’t even express the disdain I have for you lol. You spent time typing out how smart you think you are because there are two parties in the US and that’s why we have to be serious about supporting genocide. Did you reference Miriam Webster to see if genocider is a word? You repeated, not smugly?
You’re “not a liberal or democrat” you just vote for them and repeat their talking points.
Palestine is objectively experiencing less violence under trump which is wildly pathetic for the biden administration.
Lol lmao you don’t know any leftists.
I finally figured out what you are, not worth my time
I voted third party
wonderingwandererIf you allowed trump to win, you supported genocide.
And if you allowed Harris to think she could win while supporting genocide, you supported genocide.
Innocents were dead either way. What’s worse, ten thousand dead innocents or a hundred thousand dead innocents?
What’s your answer to the trolley problem? Do you let ten people die because you don’t want the moral culpability of one person’s death?
Combine that with the “drowning child” thought experiment. If you witness a child drowning in a pond, do you have a moral responsibility to save them? If you simply walk away, are you less morally culpable for that child’s death?
my answer to the trolley problem is to stop the people tying others to the tracks when that was never necessary.
So your actual answer is that you turned your back and played make believe, while deluding yourself into thinking you chose the best option and that everyone else in the world was at fault. Meanwhile you had no effect on stopping a genocide.
Man… how many bricks to the side of y’all’s head do we have to take to get you to understand that a) an election isn’t about individual choice, and b) telling people what to do with their votes is counter productive.
If you were doing in 2023/24 what you are doing now, with that comment: Your why fascism won.
Saying something over and over doesn’t mean its true.
That said, I hate both the DNC and the non-voters. I can do both. If free will exists, then I can blame both. (I mean I don’t believe in free will, but on an emotional level fuck both anyway, I don’t owe either of them shit.)
Saying something over and over doesn’t mean its true.
Denying reality over and over again doesn’t make you right and the perspective you are espousing was the dominant narrative up until the elective. That individually voters just needed to “do better”. You want to blame voters; you need them to win elections. You blamed them for failure before the contest was even run and they didn’t show up for you. Now what? How does your analysis change their minds into showing up?
What you are doing is the same thing petroleum companies did around recycling in the 90s. By believing this is some negotiation of individual choice, you are obscuring the fact that the Democrats structurally undermined their own ability to stop fascism. Blaming the individual is why fascism won.
You want to blame voters; you need them to win elections. Explain to me how you plan on getting back the 6% of Democratic voters you lost using your approach?
I don’t need to win shit anymore. I don’t care, its obviously a fool’s errand to give a shit. The 2024 US election taught me that. All worrying about politics does it hurt me.
You blamed them for failure before the contest was even run and they didn’t show up for you. Now what? How does your analysis change their minds into showing up?
All that’s left is rot, so I’m going to pick through the garbage and hope to find some gems before we all drown in shit. My analysis is just based on brutal reality. They did not show up “for themselves” as well. Its not just me they’ve hurt. Leopards are eating faces, and not all the owners of those faces are “shitlibs” and MAGA, some of them are protestors who didn’t vote.
There is no means for me to change people’s minds on voting so you don’t need worry about me trying. I just want people to understand that the very virtue obsessed moral framework they are using to make their decision to not vote has hurt them. Its doomed them. I want them to feel bad about it because in so far that someone can deserve to feel bad about it, they definitely should.
What you are doing is the same thing petroleum companies did around recycling in the 90s. By believing this is some negotiation of individual choice, you are obscuring the fact that the Democrats structurally undermined their own ability to stop fascism. Blaming the individual is why fascism won.
No its not. In a purely rational sense, I don’t really blame anyone. Free will doesn’t actually exist.
But within the context of people I can like, dislike, or hate as the emotional creature that I am: I definitely can fucking loathe multiple groups at the same time and feel catharsis at their suffering.
I think you are still operating under the delusion that this second Trump term is something we will escape from, but the thing is, bad times don’t create good times. They create more bad times. We are in the gravity well of a metaphorical political and environmental black hole, and you are in denial.
The dems will win in 2028, and it wont matter much, other than we’ll get some sweet painkillers as we pass into oblivion. Because the GOP will win in 2032. Or society will completely collapse. Or the globe will roast all of our food and we’ll all starve. There are not much in the way of good things to look forward to.
I don’t need to win shit anymore. I don’t care,
Great. Then just keep it all to yourself then. All bottled up deep inside so you don’t hand the fascists another victory.
Great. Then just keep it all to yourself then.
No lol, eat shit, scumbag.
All bottled up deep inside so you don’t hand the fascists another victory.
Still insistent on the delusions I see.
No lol, eat shit, scumbag.
You don’t deserve charity. You objectively supported fascism with your actions. And now youre saying you don’t care enough to stop it.
I already tried to stop it. You continuously reframing this like I’m a DNC cheerleader is actually pathetic.
Your proposition that I continue means rewarding people like yourself, who actually is at least in part responsible for this.
That said, now I’m curious. What exactly would you expect someone like myself to do now to stop the fascism you enabled? Do I owe you?
You need to do the work to undo the Fascism you enabled. Simple as. Make it clear in this next election cycle that no oro ice, pro genocide candidates get your vote. And it’s not because you individually won’t vote for them. Your individual vote doesn’t matter. Neither does mine.
What matters is the 6% left on the table by Harris being pro genocide. We’ve got to to get them back which means you have to do the work of cleaning out the cynicism you injected into the system by insisting people vote or genocide.
You have work to do.
Voting for Harris wasn’t voting for genocide, because it ultimately did not matter if the GOP won or if the Dems won in terms of what happened to the Palestinians.
In fact, letting Trump win probably made it worse for the Palestinians.
I voted to save immigrants from what’s happening now to them. I voted to protect the poor from the GOP’s austerity. I voted to prevent an even more conservative SCOTUS. I voted for the tiny hope of fixing women’s bodily autonomy and healthcare in this country. I voted to prevent the death cult evangelicals and white supremacists from gaining more power in our government.
My co-worker has family in Mexico that shes terrified for because this admin’s moronic and destructive actions of killing El Mencho have put them directly in danger and will do zero to help with drug related deaths.
I know trans people who literally want to flee this country and can’t because of the gender on their fucking passport.
My mom is worried about being able to vote because she did not change her fucking last name back to her maiden name when she divorced my piece of shit republican father and now there is legislation meant to suppress her vote.
I voted to try and prevent all of this. FUCK YOU, YOU STUPID PIECE OF SHIT. YOU’RE A FUCKING WORTHLESS IMBECILE. You are not my ally. You enabled this misery, and I hate you for it. I despise you at the very core of my being.