MarcusGFeb 23
Paul Cantrell

RE: https://hachyderm.io/@rationaldoge/116116583354261712

Is it OK to call them concentration camps yet?

Or do we have to wait until they all get built?

Until they get filled?

Until they become death camps?

Please, if you object to the term “concentration camp” right now, clearly identify your bright line for when that term becomes acceptable.

Feb 23 at 3:57amWeb
Show threadearthlingFeb 23

@inthehands

You mean a Yellow Line?

Show threadThe Orange ThemeFeb 23
@inthehands "No one is suggesting that ICE is planning anything close to mass extermination..." Like fucking hell, that's *exactly* what they're going to do. Oh my god, even the critical media still doesn't want to believe it...
Show threadJargogglesFeb 23
@theorangetheme @inthehands
When it becomes obvious that they can't move that many fucking people out of the country, they will most certainly become death camps. That's what the original Nazis came to realize and it's what the new Nazis are going to realize, too.
Show threadOrb 2069Feb 23

@jargoggles @theorangetheme @inthehands

The nazis were straight up killing people for convenience/'purity' justifications fairly early on ( https://wikipedia.org/wiki/Aktion_T4 ), there wasn't any indication the camp deaths weren't always part of the program.

Aktion T4 - Wikipedia

Show threadSteggyFeb 23
@jargoggles @theorangetheme @inthehands 100% that’s already why they aren’t providing even minimal health care
Show threadSusanneFeb 23
@jargoggles agree, but there is also the possibility that they might "rent" out people to forced labor when land owners and industries start crying for workers. Also in Nazi concentration camps there was forced labor for a number of companies.
@theorangetheme @inthehands
Show threadMagnus AhltorpFeb 23

@jargoggles @theorangetheme @inthehands How hard is it for people to realise that being called ”concentration camps” is a much lower bar than ”death camps”? If you think they should be called death camps, sure, do that then, but we should call them concentration camps way before then.

We call it ”prison” even when you’re not there to be executed, right?

Show threadblaue_FledermausFeb 23

@ahltorp @jargoggles @theorangetheme @inthehands
And "concentration camps" are not even exclusively a Nazi thing, everybody was using them during WW2.

(Not defending ICE or the(ir) use of concentration camps)

Show threadMagnus AhltorpFeb 23
@blaue_Fledermaus @jargoggles @theorangetheme @inthehands https://mastodon.nu/@ahltorp/116118523650048321
Magnus Ahltorp (@[email protected])

@[email protected] @[email protected] @[email protected] You do remember the concentration camps for citizens with Japanese heritage in the US, right?

Mastodon.nu
Show threadfan boy 🪭Feb 23

@inthehands
> Is it OK to call them concentration camps yet?

Is someone stopping you from doing that?

Show threadTropical ChaosFeb 23
@inthehands I've called them concentration camps the entire time, or for profit death camps- if it makes someone uncomfortable- GOOD! This should make ALL of us more than uncomfortable!! #abolishice
Show threadRootWyrm 🇺🇦Feb 23
@inthehands nah, at this point? All of the people losing their shit demanding people not call them concentration camps, are being added to the 'collaborator' list and we be dealt with as such.
Show threadToni M.Feb 23

@inthehands

In Europe, we knew about the camps the US Americans were building and we were wondering what they were for.

Show threadBruce Heerssen Feb 23

@inthehands

If the administration manages to somehow open and fill all of those facilities, there's going to be a new problem. How are they going to actually deport that many people? What will they do when the target countries inevitably refuse to accept more deportees?

Show threadOrb 2069Feb 23

@bruce @inthehands

You need to look into what actually happened last time. The reason they were called 'concentration camps' is because the official line for the public was they were for the concentration of people 'illegally' in the country (being a jew in Germany was made illegal) for deportation when receiving countries became available.

They didn't look all that hard.

Show threadBruce Heerssen Feb 23

@Orb2069 @inthehands

My questions were a bit rhetorical. I think we all know where this can lead.

Show threadMagnus AhltorpFeb 23
@Orb2069 @bruce @inthehands You do remember the concentration camps for citizens with Japanese heritage in the US, right?
Show threadBruce Heerssen Feb 23

@ahltorp @Orb2069 @inthehands

I fear these will be much, much worse. I will be very happy to be wrong.

Show threaddisorderlyfFeb 23
@bruce @inthehands I'm sure the administration will come up with some sort of answer, maybe even a permanent one...Wait, no. There's some other way to phrase it that sounds more apt but I can't quite think of it...
Show threadEveryday.Human DerekFeb 23
@inthehands @rationaldoge
Well 🤔,
There’s enough of us on here on mastodon. Maybe we should make a little adhoc server and check with sources.
How to design an intelligence network info collections end foraging, trusted people. Idk😮‍💨
Show threadlucaFeb 23
@inthehands That is what they already are. I'm just curious to see if they will mostly be prepared by November, and filled on time, before any of the few US citizens who still vote is going to express any "disappointment".
Show threadPomegranate Pirate 🏳️‍🌈🏴‍☠️Feb 23
@inthehands it would be really bad if they got bombed or set fire to before they could be put to use.
Show threadЖафстелцеFeb 23
@inthehands you could use so many other words to appropriately describe the US internment camps; if you choose deliberately the term "concentration camp", you actually want to create the association with nazi death camps.
And the problem here is not that the Trump camps would be demonized (idc), but that the magnitude and horrors of the actual Concentration Camps are diminuished through comparison with "lesser evils".
Show threadHollieKFeb 23

@Schafstelze @inthehands So when do they become "Concentration Camps" in your eyes? Even the Nazi system started small and was built up over a number of years:

"The Nazi regime set up its first concentration camp in Dachau in March 1933, barely two months after Hitler’s rise to power. Between 1933 and 1945, Germans built an extensive system of more than 44,000 camps and other incarceration sites (including ghettos), aiming to imprison and kill “enemies of the state”, which included Jews, Roma and Sinti, Jehovah’s Witnesses, German Communists, Socialists, and homosexuals."

https://www.lbi.org/exhibitions/virtual-exhibition-last-stop-before-the-last-stop/concentration-camps-existed-long-before-hitler-came-to-power/

CONCENTRATION CAMPS EXISTED LONG BEFORE HITLER CAME TO POWER

Concentration camps have been used by governments on almost every continent over the last three centuries. Between 1933 and 1945, Germans built an extensive system of more than 44,000 camps.

Leo Baeck Institute
Show threadЖафстелцеFeb 23

@inthehands @HollieK72 What we know as CC's is defined by the pictures of Auschwitz. Again, by using the term for Trumps Camps, you WANT to invoke the comparison. When we talk about (actual) CC's, we don't picture forced labour camps (which existed as well) but the extermination camps.

If you can't see the difference, you proof my point that the inflationary use of the word downplays the "original" in the head of people.

Show threadHollieKFeb 23

@Schafstelze @inthehands

From the OP:

'Please, if you object to the term “concentration camp” right now, clearly identify your bright line for when that term becomes acceptable.'

Not all concentration camps are extermination camps. When I picture concentration camps, it's not "just" the Nazi camps, but also the Russian Gulag system, and I'm also aware of the British Concentration Camps from the Second Boer war. There are more examples in the article I linked. I would call Trump's camps concentration camps, under the following definition:

"A concentration camp is a place where a large number of inmates, often those deemed political enemies or members of ethnic and religious minorities, are confined against their will and under guard, usually without having been charged with a crime. Punitive conditions of internment usually result in a high rate of mortality."

Apparently you object to the term being used now, so where do you draw the line?

Show threadЖафстелцеFeb 24
@inthehands @HollieK72 I tried to explain several times. I'm sorry for my lack of eloquence, but I failed.
Show threadHollieKFeb 24

@Schafstelze @inthehands From what you explained I take it that you would only call them concentration camps when they become death camps, which is a long way down the line from what the Nazis started with, in 1933. It took them years to get to that point, and even the Nazis differentiated between death camps and normal concentration camps. There were six death camps: Chełmno, Bełżec, Sobibor, Treblinka, Majdanek and Auschwitz-Birkenau.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extermination_camp

Extermination camp - Wikipedia

Show threadЖафстелцеFeb 24
@inthehands @HollieK72 I try one more time: We can argue if the term existed before (or afterwards) to describe something DIFFERENT than the german CC's. But that's not the point. The way the term is used for Trumps facilities is not accidentially the same, but is aiming at invoking pictures of Auschwitz in our heads. So, on the one hand equalizing Trumps camps with Auschwitz, on the other one claiming that it's not used in this sense? What is it, now?
Show threadЖафстелцеFeb 24
@inthehands @HollieK72 btw, needless to say that Trumps camps are horrible enough and should be shut down immediately (or the inmates replaced with MAGAs).
That I criticise the use of the term CC for his camps doesn't mean I support or defend them.
Show threadHollieKFeb 24
@Schafstelze @inthehands Well, we aren't ever going to agree on this point, because of our different interpretations of what a Concentration Camp is. I agree with the OP that it's okay to call them concentration camps now, because they've only just started to create them, and it's possible that they will evolve into death camps in the future. You say that they are not Auschwitz and therefore aren't concentration camps - I agree that they aren't Auschwitz (yet), but don't agree that they aren't concentration camps.
Show threadꙮ 𝄃𝄁𝄂𝄀𝄀𝄁𝄃🇫🇯🇱🇨🇱🇧Feb 23
@Schafstelze @inthehands Concentration camps were created even before Hitler was born. Their purpose was to restrict the movement of undesirable groups: prisoners of war, refugees, and political opponents.
Show threadЖафстелцеFeb 23
@inthehands @liilliil and the swastika existed before Hitler, too. But still we don't think of dharmic religions when we see one, do we!?
Show threadꙮ 𝄃𝄁𝄂𝄀𝄀𝄁𝄃🇫🇯🇱🇨🇱🇧Feb 23
@Schafstelze @inthehands depends on context, innit?
A woman in Russia was recently fined for promoting Nazism. It was because she took photos of swastikas in Goa—specifically in their Hindu context.
Show threadЖафстелцеFeb 23
@inthehands @liilliil you make my point better than I could myself. Thanks.
Show threadDavid J. AtkinsonFeb 23

@inthehands They are “non-judicial internment facilities” to temporarily (indefinitely) house undesirables until they … go elsewhere. Use your imagination.

There is no rule of law governing those facilities. No lawyers, no habeas corpus, no appeal, nothing to protect anyone who gets swept up.

You can definitely call them concentration camps. History is repeating.

Show threadPete Alex Harris🦡🕸️🌲/∞🪐∫Feb 23

@inthehands

People who don't want you to call atrocity by its name until it is proven to be actively underway are people who do not want to prevent it.

Show threadxs4me2Feb 23

@inthehands

It is what they are… concentration camps.

Show threadHarryMuttFeb 23

@inthehands

They ARE concentration camps. Even if you do not take into account that the term was used before the nazis built their first one, they are concentration camps in the sense the nazis used it.

They didn't start as death camps before the war started, that came later. They were built to lock away the opposition, the undesirable, the people that did not fit into the nazi world view.

And yeah, that IS exactly what these camps are.

Regards from Germany

Show threadGraeme 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿Feb 23
@inthehands They are indeed concentration camps. And they would probably kill everyone in there if they thought they could get away with it. See also the epstein files dialogs on getting rid of the poor.
Show thread🔏 Matthias WiesmannFeb 23
@inthehands They will only be called “concentration camps“ when the guards speak german, maybe japanese. Only the bad guys make such things, and muricans are the good guys, duh. It's only called “Enhanced interrogation techniques“ when it's done by US soldiers, if not, it's just watery torture.
Show threadMirishuliFeb 23

@inthehands I wonder if people realize how easy and quietly these will turn into extermination camps?

Want to know how much a portable crematorium costs? How much to,set it up in its own prefab building? $350,000 will get it done. Less if you already have a building. Russia has them on the Ukrainian battlefields.

https://www.cremsys.com/mocx/

Cremation Chamber, Portable Modular MOCX Crematory System

MOCx is the only portable/modular crematory system today. Includes a free-standing building, UL-listed CFS 2300 cremation furnace w/ stack, our CFS “Load Plus” loading lift table and ”Process Plus” processing station. See it here - from Cremsys!

Cremsys
Show threadSepia FanFeb 23

@inthehands

»Concentration camps throughout the 20. and 21. centuries are by no means all the same, with respect either to the degree of violence or the extent to which inmates are abandoned by the authorities... The crucial characteristic is not whether it has barbed wire, fences, or watchtowers; it is, rather, the gathering of civilians, defined by a regime as 'enemies', in order to hold them against their will without charge in a place where the rule of law has been suspended.« Dan Stone
🎯

Show thread#?.info Feb 23
@inthehands I think even the bootlckers know they're concentration camps.The last time someone criticized me for describing the MAGA government as "Nazi" they very noticeably used the term "Death camp" instead when listing the things Nazis did that MAGA hasn't yet. They were, until Alligator Alcatraz was built., claiming the lack of concentration camps meant MAGA wasn't Nazi
Show threadDoodlesFeb 23
@inthehands
Perhaps after we end Trump and his Nazi cult, we can round them up and put them in the concentration camps they built. Justice for All... 🔥 ☠️ 🔥
Show threadInc Hulk 🧪Feb 23
@IDoodle @inthehands With the massive numbers of ICE, the prison capacity will be stretched, so these concentration camps will have a good use at last (just need to cut out the for-profit running of these places).
Show threadFreediverXFeb 23
@inthehands @rationaldoge
Cue Schumer or Jeffries making some comment about the need for tighter building standards for the concentration camps.
Show threadRealGene ☣️Feb 23
@inthehands
Not until they have chimneys, apparently.
Show threadColin SumnerFeb 23

@inthehands

I hope you guys won't wait until the stench of the smoke from the chimneys becomes too much - before you remove your Hitler.

Show threadMason Loring BlissFeb 23
@inthehands We've already had concentration camps. Remember the baby cages.
Show threadWenFeb 23
@inthehands @MostlyTato No chimneys. Yet.