@divVerent @Em0nM4stodon No there are not. This is a fundamental fact of mathematical logic. Given a proposed age verification system you can prove that it's either trivially bypassed (doesn't actually verify age) or violates key privacy properties.

Em's point is spot-on. If you think of this as a problem to be solved, you are going to be wrong and you are going to be a useful fool for fascists.

@dalias @divVerent @Em0nM4stodon Knowing how old someone is does not limit their speech nor their ability to vote (we verify age for that already, and for many other reasons). Age verification isn’t state censorship. I suppose it could be a way to limit anonymous speech. That isn’t a Right where I am from (nor is ‘free’ speech). I doubt anonymous speech is a Right anywhere.

I have no doubt it’s absolutely technically feasible in a way that infringes on no one’s privacy. Ultimately though, yes, it could be abused by bad actors. Like everything else in civilisation we need some balance of enforcement to deal with those people.

@edwiebe @divVerent @Em0nM4stodon There is no way to know how old someone is without attestation by some authority who knows their identity. This precludes participation by anyone not known to such an authority (undocumented, outside of jurisdiction, etc.) or for whom it is not safe to let that authority know they are participating. And this is only the tip of the iceberg.

You are dangerously wrong, and you should stop advocating about things you're dangerously wrong about.

@dalias @edwiebe @divVerent @Em0nM4stodon
while that's true, it is possible to make such an attestation without destroying privacy (see https://soatok.blog/2025/07/31/age-verification-doesnt-need-to-be-a-privacy-footgun/).
however, even if you do that, it'll still be morally wrong in most cases.

and also, corporations are deliberately not going for the private solution, and governments are shifting the blame to users. the Czech government recently admitted social media is already illegal for teens (due to privacy laws), but they want new laws anyway.

@divVerent @Em0nM4stodon @dalias @edwiebe the crypto discussion misses the point.

no corporation has went down this way, and that's a deliberate choice of them. countries introduce ID requirements for social media instead of going after corpos for collecting kids' data, and that's a deliberate choice of them.

and they all treat a flat age limit as a solution, as if when someone's 16 and a day it's suddenly okay to hook them up on this digital drug, and that's a deliberate choice of them.