Guy who's trying his best :(Feb 22
I'm still constantly baffled by just how absolutely beyond shit modern computers are
Show threadkabel42Feb 22
@OpenComputeDesign x86 was a mistake? :)
Show threadkabel42Feb 22
@OpenComputeDesign
16 bit was a mistake?
transistors were a mistake?
how modern are we talking? :)
Show threadR.L. Dane    🍵 Feb 22

@kabel42 @OpenComputeDesign

16-bit/early-32-bit was my favorite era. (Basically, the #68k era ;)

Computers were just becoming capable, but not too big for their britches.

Show threadGuy who's trying his best :(Feb 22

@rl_dane @kabel42

Yeah, tbh, we really should have stopped at 32-bit

Show threadkabel42Feb 22
@OpenComputeDesign @rl_dane I had a good time with my first amd athlon 64 but sure, simpler times :)
Show threadR.L. Dane    🍵 Feb 22

@kabel42 @OpenComputeDesign

I think computers were honestly better when they were limited to absolutely no more than 1GB RAM, no more than 256 colors, and no more than 1024x768 screen resolution.

1GB RAM: no LLMs
256 colors: no horrid low-contrast soupy interfaces
XGA Resolution: no horrid empty spaces and bloated interfaces

I keep wanting to make that as an OS 😄

(If only I had the skillz)

Show threadGuy who's trying his best :(Feb 22

@rl_dane @kabel42

Yeah, older GUIs were _so much better_ it's actually impressive just how fast and how hard GUI design has fallen off a cliff

Show threadR.L. Dane    🍵 Feb 22

@OpenComputeDesign @kabel42

Yeah, and the pushback I get from statements like that is insane to me.

"But we don't want to go back to Windows 95."

I don't either, it was a crap OS, but the interface was better than the crap interfaces they're shipping today, so ?!?!????!?

Show threadpixxFeb 22

@rl_dane

I'd rather w95 with its software suite and interface than w11 with its.

W11 is a worse OS than w95 was.

@OpenComputeDesign @kabel42

Show threadR.L. Dane    🍵 Feb 22

@pixx @OpenComputeDesign @kabel42

It does have memory protection, though. That was Windows 95's most glaring weakness.

Edit: I meant to say that it doesn't. derp.
Edit2: No, I was saying that W11 has memory protection. lol

Show threadGuy who's trying his best :(Feb 22

@rl_dane @pixx @kabel42

Modern software still absolutely _sucks_ with anything to do with memory. Any claims modern OS's make are, at best, just giving people a false sense of security.

Show threadR.L. Dane    🍵 Feb 22

@OpenComputeDesign @pixx @kabel42

Brofam, Windows 95 used to crash on me daily.

Linux? Basically never.

FreeBSD? Maaaaybe once a week.

Show threadkabel42Feb 22
@rl_dane @OpenComputeDesign @pixx i had to reinstall win95 about as ofthen as i reboot linux :)
Show threadGuy who's trying his best :(Feb 22

@kabel42 @rl_dane @pixx

Have to reinstall linux at least once a season :P

Show threadR.L. Dane    🍵 

@OpenComputeDesign @kabel42 @pixx

I have linux installs last me years. Except for Arch-based. :P
Also had bad luck with Solus, but I only tried it once.

Feb 22 at 9:01pmWeb
Show threadkabel42Feb 22
@rl_dane @OpenComputeDesign @pixx
'I've installed arch when my core 2 duo was new and it still works on a AMD Ryzen 9 7900, so i can't complain
Show threadGuy who's trying his best :(Feb 22

@kabel42 @rl_dane @pixx

Nahhh, arch based distros die after using pacman more than once. First time is free. Second time always comes with dire consequences. Up to and including kernel panics

Show threadkabel42Feb 22
@OpenComputeDesign @rl_dane @pixx thats why you use yay ;)
Show threadR.L. Dane    🍵 Feb 22

@kabel42 @OpenComputeDesign @pixx

Okay, but that's worse.
I mean, you you do get how that's worse, right?

#RandomAproposTheGoodPlaceQuotes #S1E01 #TheGoodPlace #TheGoodPlaceQuotes

Show threadkabel42Feb 22
@rl_dane @OpenComputeDesign @pixx no?
Show threadR.L. Dane    🍵 Feb 22

@kabel42 @OpenComputeDesign @pixx

yay can really mess up a system. Not that it ever happened to me, but there's a lot of caution about it, and that's why it's not installed by default (IIRC).

Show threadkabel42Feb 22
@rl_dane @OpenComputeDesign @pixx it is if you use the endeouver installer :)
It also just uses libpackman, so it shouldn't make much of a difference except for extra info in the update dialog and some aur automation
Show threadR.L. Dane    🍵 Feb 23

@kabel42 @OpenComputeDesign @pixx

Endeavour pooped in the bed when doing a grub update.

So did Manjaro.

I swore off Arch-based after that.

Show threadkabel42Feb 23
@rl_dane @OpenComputeDesign @pixx I had to boot from a usb stick and grub-install once
Show threadR.L. Dane    🍵 Feb 23

@kabel42 @OpenComputeDesign @pixx

Do you use LUKS?

Show threadkabel42Feb 23
@rl_dane @OpenComputeDesign @pixx on that machine, yes
Show threadR.L. Dane    🍵 Feb 23

@kabel42 @OpenComputeDesign @pixx

I could neither resuscitate it, nor find any useful info or help on the forums for doing so, neither on Manjaro nor EndeavourOS. :/

Show threadkabel42Feb 23
@rl_dane @OpenComputeDesign @pixx for me sudo grub-install was all i needed IIRC, maybe you had a broken initramfs?
Show threadR.L. Dane    🍵 Feb 23

@kabel42 @OpenComputeDesign @pixx

No idea. It was my work computer, and I didn't have a ton of time to futz with it. I backed it up, nuked, and paved. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Show threadGuy who's trying his best :(Feb 23

@rl_dane @kabel42 @pixx

LUKS??? Gee, talk about things that will _RUIN EVERYTHING_

Nothing could ever make me touch LUKS ever again. Nuh uh, not a chance, ain't no way

Show threadR.L. Dane    🍵 Feb 23

@OpenComputeDesign @kabel42 @pixx

making my system unbootable is less bad than giving my data to housekeeping, the TSA, or pervy patrick at the coffee shop.

Show threadGuy who's trying his best :(Feb 23

@rl_dane @kabel42 @pixx

Well, I disagree tbh. But I never leave the house anyway

Show threadR.L. Dane    🍵 Feb 23

@OpenComputeDesign @kabel42 @pixx

I'm sorry. :'(

Show threadGuy who's trying his best :(Feb 23

@rl_dane @kabel42 @pixx

About what?

Show threadR.L. Dane    🍵 Feb 23

@OpenComputeDesign @kabel42 @pixx

Never leaving the house.

Show threadGuy who's trying his best :(Feb 23

@rl_dane @kabel42 @pixx

Oh, but that's a good thing!
Have you _seen_ the outside world?

It's _much_ better in here, trust me

Show threadR.L. Dane    🍵 Feb 23

@OpenComputeDesign @kabel42 @pixx

No, it's not.

Show threadGuy who's trying his best :(Feb 23

@rl_dane @kabel42 @pixx

I don't understand?

Show threadR.L. Dane    🍵 Feb 23

@OpenComputeDesign @kabel42 @pixx

It's not better in_there.

No matter how bad it is out_there, it's never better in_there.

It just feels safer, and more comfortable.

And to be sure, it IS safer than the world at large.

But you are also missing out on so, so much.

Show threadR.L. Dane    🍵 Feb 22

@OpenComputeDesign @kabel42 @pixx

It's not that bad, but yeah. XD

Show threadR.L. Dane    🍵 Feb 22

@kabel42 @OpenComputeDesign @pixx

* Glances over at the corner of the room where #GRUB and #LUKS are cowering, whimpering, and shaking as soon as Arch is mentioned

I can complain. 🤣

Show threadGuy who's trying his best :(Feb 22

@rl_dane @kabel42 @pixx

Well, the problem is, even if you have an install that lasts a few years, you'll still have to reinstall once the mirrors for your version shut down.

Show threadkabel42Feb 22
@OpenComputeDesign @rl_dane @pixx My ISP has a mirror that been solid for 2 decades
Show threadGuy who's trying his best :(Feb 22

@kabel42 @rl_dane @pixx

They're still providing the same version after twenty years? OpenBSD for instance only seems to keep like two minor versions max, maybe three on their "tardiest" mirrors

Show threadkabel42Feb 22
@OpenComputeDesign @rl_dane @pixx no, i think arch usually only has one version on the mirrors
Show threadkabel42Feb 22
@OpenComputeDesign @rl_dane @pixx But they have pretty old debian packages
Show threadGuy who's trying his best :(Feb 22

@kabel42 @rl_dane @pixx

Exactly. Worthless. Means you need to reinstall every time you wanna install a new program

Show threadkabel42Feb 22
@OpenComputeDesign @rl_dane @pixx why? what would that get you?
Show threadGuy who's trying his best :(Feb 22

@kabel42 @rl_dane @pixx

What would what get me? Reinstalling?

You typically can't skip updates, so if the repos for your installed version get taken down, then you can't install any new software, and you can't update to a supported version, so you have to just reinstall a fresh with a supported version to install new software. Pretty much every time I boot up an OpenBSD computer after a few years, I have to reinstall. It's their biggest failing

Show threadkabel42Feb 22
@OpenComputeDesign @rl_dane @pixx at least with arch there shouldn't be a difference between updating and reinstalling 🤷
Show threadGuy who's trying his best :(Feb 22

@kabel42 @rl_dane @pixx

I... Don't even understand what you're saying? They're completely different things?

Show threadkabel42Feb 22
@OpenComputeDesign @rl_dane @pixx Is it? Installing is copying a minimal system for bootstrapping and then installing packages from the repos. The same packages you would have gotten from an update.
Show threadGuy who's trying his best :(Feb 22

@kabel42 @rl_dane @pixx

It's... Just so very very much more complicated than that. I guess it's like for some reason doing a dirty install rather than a clean install. But like, that _never_ goes well. Don't dirty install

Show threadkabel42Feb 22
@OpenComputeDesign @rl_dane @pixx I don't think i want to know what you do to your poor pc
Show threadpixxFeb 23

@kabel42
Yeah ngl this sounds like it's probably at least partly user error

@OpenComputeDesign @rl_dane

Show threadGuy who's trying his best :(Feb 23

@pixx @kabel42 @rl_dane

Well, yes, dirty installs are a bad idea, but that's my point. Upgrades and fresh installs are _not_ the same thing. But upgrades _are_ fairly similar to dirty installs, which is part of why upgrading is a very bad idea

Show threadR.L. Dane    🍵 Feb 22

@OpenComputeDesign @kabel42 @pixx

Why would you have to reinstall an old version when upgrading in Arch? I don't understand that.

Show threadR.L. Dane    🍵 Feb 22

@OpenComputeDesign @kabel42 @pixx

WHY DO YOU NEED TO RUN A TWENTY-YEAR-OLD OS?!?

Don't tell me it's for hardware support. That's what NetBSD is for! XD

Show threadGuy who's trying his best :(Feb 22

@rl_dane @kabel42 @pixx

Well, many reasons. But it's hard to even use a _five_ year old OS. Or sometimes, even a _two_ year old os

Show threadkabel42Feb 22
@OpenComputeDesign @rl_dane @pixx because you've gotten used to modern conviniences?
Show threadGuy who's trying his best :(Feb 22

@kabel42 @rl_dane @pixx

Because of the lack of support. Modern stuff is the epitome of inconvenience.

Show threadpixxFeb 23

@OpenComputeDesign
I dunno my pc has been over a ywar out of date without me noticing before

Steam etc worked fine, firefox worked fine, all rhe terminal stuff worked fine...

@kabel42 @rl_dane

Show threadGuy who's trying his best :(Feb 23

@pixx @kabel42 @rl_dane

I guess it depends on what you mean by a year out of date. If you mean you installed early debian 13, and now it's late debian 13, sure. But if you're on a version of debian that was EOL'd a year ago, browser issues especially will start to become painfully apparent. Especially if you have to deal with a lot of government and/or education websites.

Show threadpixxFeb 22

@OpenComputeDesign

Only with a badly desifned os.

Never had thst problem with gentoo

@rl_dane @kabel42

Show threadGuy who's trying his best :(Feb 22

@pixx @rl_dane @kabel42

It's fairly intrinsically tied to the dependency hell nature of Unix, though

Show threadpixxFeb 23

@OpenComputeDesign
No.

As long as your package manager can run, you're fine.

Generally, upgrading glibc will not break anything. The package managsr should still work after swappikg it out.

So it can then swapn out everything else in reverse dependency order so everything else keeps working along the way.

I've upgraded gentoo, alpine, debian, arch, and various others that were *years* out of date with no problems whatsoever. For some of those it was a bit abnoying and took multiple steps, but I've qlso ignored instructions for eg debian and been fine jumping multiple releases

@rl_dane @kabel42

Show threadGuy who's trying his best :(Feb 23

@pixx @rl_dane @kabel42

Hard disagree. Once the repos for your version are down, especially in the BSDs it seems, upgrading becomes, if it's possible at all, a complete nightmare with a huge chance of failure. Although, upgrading always has about a 75% chance of failure anyway. And even when it does work, you'll often be stuck with weird glitches like multiple volume controls on the taskbar, and stuff like that. Upgrading in the unixes/linuxes absolutely sucks

Show threadpixxFeb 23

@OpenComputeDesign
Haven't tried the bsds long enough to know, linux is better about it for sure though..

@rl_dane @kabel42

Show threadR.L. Dane    🍵 Feb 23

@OpenComputeDesign @pixx @kabel42

I don't know what you mean by "Dependency Hell."

What OS does a good job of managing dependencies?

If you say Windows, I'mma MSCVRT40.DLL NOT FOUND ya face. XD

Show threadGuy who's trying his best :(Feb 23

@rl_dane @pixx @kabel42

Well, true, all OS's _do_ have dependency hell. But that doesn't make it _ok_

We can and _should_ do better than this. Rather than working as hard as we can to keep it the status quo

Show threadR.L. Dane    🍵 Feb 23

@OpenComputeDesign @pixx @kabel42

I don't have a solid suggestion for improving it. :/

Show threadGuy who's trying his best :(Feb 23

@rl_dane @pixx @kabel42

Well, I admit it's a complicated issue. But a lot of that is because everyone is so used to making everything so much more complicated than it needs to be

Show threadR.L. Dane    🍵 Feb 23

@OpenComputeDesign @pixx @kabel42

> ...But a lot of that is because everyone is so used to making everything so much more complicated than it needs to be

This, sadly is massively the M.O. of not only the Linux world, but the computing world at large, right now.

And it kinda sucks.

Show threadGuy who's trying his best :(Feb 23

@rl_dane @pixx @kabel42

100%, yeah :(

Show threadpixxFeb 23

@rl_dane
Don't make ne take back my not evangelizing thing

*cough* plan9 *cough*

@OpenComputeDesign @kabel42