new_otters_raftYSK What to do if someone’s choking: Evidence says begin with back blows
AFK BRB Chocolate (CA version)I had a surreal experience once. I was at a busy, casual restaurant at a booth, sitting across from my wife. There was a lady eating alone at a booth a little way behind my wife, and I noticed she looked kind of distressed - looking around like she was trying to catch a waiter - but she seemed to be getting more panicked looking and her face didn’t look right. I got up and went over and said “Are you chocking?” and she looked at me with big eyes and nodded. I asked if she wanted me to try and help and she said yes and stood up. I never learned how to do the Heimlich except from TV shows, but seemed worth a try, so I did what I remembered, and she coughed up a piece of chicken. She looked really embarrassed and said “Thank you.” I said I was glad to help and went back to my seat. No one in the place noticed a thing except for my wife.
ZiggyTheZygoteThat was too awkwardly casual of everyone. I would’ve at least given you a high five!
We’re such weird creatures. That woman was choking to death and she was too shy to ask for help and too embarrassed after to say much of anything.
MarshezezzMight have been shock on her part. I choked in a restaurant before on a peppermint and my mom saved me with abdominal thrusts but I was really shaken up afterwards from how scary it got and couldn’t really react much for a while afterwards
Same for the person I performed the heimlich on, I found it odd at the time and her daughter thanked me profusely, it was surreal. I also remember being terrified on hurting her as well as potentially being sued if I had, she was a bigger lady and really short so I had her like fully off the ground squeezing the absolute fuck out of her
What a world where I have to have that thought while trying to help
Yeah it’s quite the experience, you can’t breathe and that’s freaking you out and then you’re just airborne all the sudden and something flies out of you and then you suddenly aren’t dying anymore. It’s a trip but damn I’m glad my mom was able to react to it cos the choking part was horrifying. I’m sure the person you saved feels the same way that you were there to react to it, even if in the moment they seemed a bit dissociated.
Funny, when I sat back down, my wife just calmly said, “Did you just save that woman’s life?” It was weird, we just went back to eating and never really talked about it again except when someone would mention the Heimlich and my wife would tell the story.
I have the exact opposite experience. I was waiting tables at place with a stage and 500 seats, lights are out, I notice a woman is choking and I went for the heimlich, successfully dislodged something as the house lights were brought on and 500 people are staring at us.
Oh, wow. What did people do, applaud?
Right after the comedian said “well that was fucking crazy”
I could not have gotten out of that room fast enough
What did the person you helped say?
Nothing at all. Likely in shock or embarrassed or something. Her daughter thanked me quite a bit and I asked if I could grab her a water or something, I grabbed her a water, still nothing, they left after the water
Funny enough a coworker told me “you’re not supposed to do the heimlich anymore”
Which is funny because in both your story and mine it worked.
Yeah, it’s effective, definitely more risk of damage apparently. Was kind of violent when i did it, larger shorter lady so I had to like pick her up in order to effectively pull in the right spot, I know there was probably bruising and whatnot.
I’ll end up starting with the back if I ever end up doing it again, but ol reliable will be there if I need it.
To be honest, I didn’t even think of anything else. I’d never done the Heimlich, wasn’t trained, it just seemed like the thing to try.
When I was a kid, my mom put a lot of effort into teaching and reminding us to cut up our food into small pieces to make cooking less likely.
I don’t know if this story is true, but she would always reference how a relative of hers had gotten steak stuck in his throat, couldn’t communicate that, and died in the middle of the dining room seating, surrounded by relatives I guess just thought he was being quiet.
(And that’s why you always leave a note)
Can you imagine how that family must have felt? Awful.
This is interesting because CPR/first aid classes specifically teach (taught) that back blows are harmful and cause obstructions to get lodged lower in the airway except for very young people who you can turn upsidedownish. Time to rethink. Love it!
I was taught the same as a part of nurse training - maybe I was given outdated information, I don’t know. Bu t of course I was surprised by the article
My most recent bls cpr recert talked about back blows, and said chest thrusts before abdominal thrusts.
Chest thrusts as in chest compressions? Like whet the heart stops? What if the heart is still beating??
No, not chest compressions, though that IS what you go to if they don’t stop choking, and then become unconscious (because not breathing is a direct path to not beating). Again, I’ll refer to the wikipedia article someone else has posted in these comments, but chest ‘thrusts’ are similar to the abdominal thrust, but your hands are placed higher, around the rib cage rather than just under it as with the heimlich/abdominal.
That’s misinformation sponsored by heimlich himself
Specifically… Right up until they changed it just last year.
Things like this and CPR get changed more often than a lot of people would expect (which is also to say most people never know it changes) but it all gets changed based on what seems like it has the best outcome based on the information\data at hand. Usually there’s one or two adjustments every decade. Make some changes and then see if odds improve over the course of years.
Since when? Current Resus Council (UK) guidelines are for back blows first. You make sure the person is bending over forwards first.
Interesting because all of my first aid instructions say not to slap people on the back. Why should I believe this over instructors and doctors?
CatoblepasThe sources for this are also instructors and doctors, OP listed them. It sounds like this is new research and best prescribes may be in the process of changing if further research bears these findings out.
You can read the wikipedia about the abdominal thrusts that another comment linked. There’s a line in there about heimlich not being ‘scientific’ in his pushing of the abdominal thrusts and denigration of back blows.
I recently took a first air course. I was told abdominal thrusts were the first course of action. If the person is obese and you can’t get your arms around them, you should try back blows first. You have the person bend over and give them hard palm strikes in the back, not slaps. If you still can’t get the obstruction out, the last option is chest compressions, but that’s likely to break ribs in the process.
Chest compressions is for when the heart stops, and actually won’t do anything for choking. Abdominal compressions, where you put pressure on the diaphragm (not the ribs) is for choking. Also, if you do chest compressions for a stopped heart, you’re going to break a few ribs. Unless you’re doing in wrong.
Hol up, the maneuver formerly known as Heimlich??
Was Heimlich canceled? First I’ve seen this.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abdominal_thrusts
See the History section here for some controversies. From what I remember, there is disagreement on whether he asked for the name to be changed or if institutions changed it first
thankfully all i do is blow backs. everytime i see someone i make sure to blow their back. im just back blowing nonstop. i saw your mother at the market last week and blew her back.
stephenBut if they did, they’d billow majestically thanks to this good Samaritan.
Thank you for your service
Fuck me I was about to question why you see so many choking people 🤣🤣
Well, yeah. Is this just listing the first air procedure for choking? Something we’ve been doing for fuck long?
There is disagreement and outdated advice on what to do / not to do. First aid is time-sensitive so having a discussion about updated guidelines can be helpful :)
Yeah my first aid training through American Red Cross mandated 5 back blows
Evidence says begin with back blows
I don’t think I can push enough air out to make a difference - even from the back.
Not to be “that guy” but for me it really depends on who is choking. Some people I could see choking and my response would be to calmly finish my meal and in my head hope that they expire before I lose my appetite due to their horrible death rattle.
Probably not gonna death rattle with no air movement so no worried there
Interesting. I was eating at a restaurant with my mom a few years ago and she accidentally inhaled a piece of food which had the same diameter as her esophagus. It was terrifying. She just pointed at her throat and had this look on her face like she knew she was going to die. She stood up, turned around, and I did what I thought was the heimlich maneuver. I must’ve done it right, or got lucky, but it worked flawlessly. The food came flying out. I guess we’re in that 59%.
The same thing happened to my son. Luckily I had first aid training and actually knew how to do the Heimlich. I didn’t know that you were supposed to do back blows first though. When I learned, they just told me to go straight for the Heimlich.
porcoesphinoThe more eyes the better and this seems to be the recommendation:
If the person goes quiet, cannot speak or cry, or can only weakly cough, you want to start with five strong back blows first. With the person bent forward at their hips, deliver firm glancing blows between their shoulder blades using the heel of your hand up to five times.
If the obstruction does not clear, switch to abdominal thrusts. Continue alternating five back blows and five abdominal thrusts until the obstruction is cleared or the person becomes unconscious.
I’m still looking for what to do if I’m alone and something happens.
The article also uses the text “In the updated guidelines, our Canadian study was cited to inform this critical change, and was the only study directly comparing different choking techniques.” to link here:
cpr.heart.org/en/…/adult-basic-life-support
But I see no mention of any of these directions there. If someone does, let me know where I’m scanning over.
If you’re alone. Call 911 (or your regions equivalent) and wait outside for emergency services. Keep trying to cough while you wait. If you see anyone flag them down but don’t go searching for people. I know you’re looking for a self heimlich but your safest bet is to keep trying to cough and to wait for emergency services or for other help to come along. Getting the thrust you need to clear your airway, especially while starved for oxygen, is not guaranteed. So if you ever find yourself in that situation call for help. If you start choking and you’re a healthy adult you’ll have 3 to 5 minutes of consciousness. Use it wisely.
I had to wait 45 minutes for an ambulance when I thought I was about to die. You’ll fall unconscious within 5 minutes. Die within the next 5. Even if you manage to make the call, they won’t know what the hell is wrong with you because you can’t talk. Learning to save yourself in that situation is extremely important, because actual first responders won’t make it there on time.
that seems… atypical? in australia at least, the average response time for a code 1 (most critical) emergency is 15-16min depending on the state
which is still super problematic for complete obstruction (your 5+5min might even be too high for a complete obstruction)
but 45min would make the ambulance service as a whole basically a useless concept
Depends on where you are. I’m a stone’s throw from the ambulance. I can quite literally see it out my back window. Most people in the city I live in will see an ambulance within 10 minutes of the call. Contrast that with where I lived a couple of years ago, and 45 minutes might be the earliest, and up to 90 minutes at the most. We had one ambulance for ~20,000 people in a 1,000 square mile area. If ambulance one was called out, a second ambulance was rolled from the next area over to just the edge of ours.