Mastodawn

Cassandra is only carbon now

No, opposing LLMs isn't "purity culture." I've seen this now from quite a few different people, and I disagree vehemently. It is good, actually, to have moral principles and hold to them, even when people with more money than you find said principles annoying.

Cassandra is only carbon now Feb 20

Hell, if you disagree with me and think I'm wrong on the merits, then by all means make that argument! (Preferably not in my mentions, I'm tired of this whole debacle and am not personally open to changing my mind on LLMs right now.)

But "purity culture" isn't an argument, it's an appeal to the idea that holding principles is *bad*.

Cassandra is only carbon now Feb 20

(What do I mean when I say I'm not open to changing my mind on the issue at the moment? I mean that when I've tried to be open minded, I get flooded with bad-faith bullshit and outright propaganda. My being closed-minded here is a temporary and reasoned position about conserving my own energies, and not letting people DDoS my rationality. I don't think that the Discourse™ around LLMs is *currently* at a place where opposition to boosterism benefits from open-mindedness.)

Cassandra is only carbon now Feb 20

I wouldn't be saying all this if it was just Doctorow, I'm even fine disagreeing with people I deeply respect. But he's not the only one saying shit like this, and I think it's worth calling out the broader rhetorical point.

Cassandra is only carbon now Feb 21

Addendum: since this has now rather dramatically escaped containment, I want to quickly note that if you reply to this thread in a completely embarrassing way, I reserve the right to be at least a bit rude in my responses.

Zumbador Feb 22

@xgranade I've noticed recently how the LLM boosters are increasingly using purely ideological justifications as in "you say x, and capitalists say x too, therefore you're a capitalist, therefore your arguments are all invalid"

Which, ironically, is what I think of as purity culture.

Asta [AMP]Feb 20

@xgranade guessing I missed something Doctorow said... and it sounds like I'm glad I did, because I like that my eyes have not currently rage melted out of my skull.

Dave Alvarado Feb 20

@aud @xgranade you should probably skip this one. White man in tech said white man in tech shit in a very "never meet your role models" kind of way.

Cassandra is only carbon now Feb 20

@dave @aud I'm not personally sure I'd go quite that far. Someone I respect said something I vehemently disagree with, it happens. I don't think it'd be reasonable of me to insist that my heroes, as it were, agree with me on even all the important things.

I'm only being as pointed with the above because what he said is *also* something a lot of far worse people have said, and now they have more ammo.

Asta [AMP]Feb 20

@xgranade @dave it would be really nice if highly visible people quit it with the, "you know, you gotta hand it to the nazis on this one..."

Asta [AMP]Feb 20

@xgranade @dave also: imagine, if you will, using the term "purity culture" to refer to people (including many LGBTQ people) taking a stand against one of the major tools of christofascists

ffs

Dave Alvarado Feb 20

@aud @xgranade *hands Audrey some eye wash*

Asta [AMP]Feb 20

@dave @xgranade gonna need "eye socket" wash at this rate for the empty spaces where my rage melted eyeballs once existed 😂

Asta [AMP]Feb 20

@xgranade @dave the current speaker of the house keeps tab on how often his son fucking masturbates

fuck off with "purity culture" to refer to people who are trying to keep culture alive... while many of the same people are also castigated by the actual purity culture fuckers for "sexual deviancy".

Dave Alvarado Feb 20

@aud @xgranade girl, your eyes. They're gonna melt.

💜

Asta [AMP]Feb 20

@dave @xgranade I can feel em flaring up white hot with rage

graaaaah

the same people that hated me as a kid and controlled the stupid fucking state of utah are now the same types of assholes who control the fucking federal government. I hate this country, I hate LLMs, I hate all these fucking pedophiles in charge and their tech tools.

Cassandra is only carbon now Feb 20

@aud @dave All of which goes into why I disagree with him vehemently *on this specific point*. But like, I also say some problematic and wildly untrue things sometimes — I try not to, but that's the result of being human, being loud, and being on the internet.

I cannot think of a single person I follow (present company included) who hasn't made me go "oh lordy" at least once and close the laptop lid.

I feel like this is an "oh lordy" moment for how I relate to Doctorow, I guess?

Asta [AMP]Feb 20

@xgranade @dave yeah... I'm not perfect by any means. But "purity culture" as a... AGH. And it just keeps happening with these highly visible merchants of takes. Ezra Klein*, now Doctorow...

* to be fair I don't think I've ever agreed with anything I've ever heard Klein say

Cassandra is only carbon now Feb 20

@aud @dave Yeah, the difference in that respect between Doctorow and Klein is that I respect Doctorow because he's right significantly more often than he's not (imho), and more importantly, when he's right he got there by reasoning through it and sharing that reasoning with others.

I'm perfectly fine, by comparison, thinking that the world in which Klein admits he's a furry and chills out a bit would be a better world than this one.

Asta [AMP]Feb 20

@xgranade @dave I think I'm just gonna log off for a day or two. There's no coming back from "purity culture"

AGAIN, mike johnson is publicly abusing his son and controlling his sexuality. that's fucking "purity culture". christ

I can't with having "attempting to keep humans centered and cared for" compared to mike fucking johnson and all that controlling shit.

Dave Alvarado Feb 20

💜

We'll be here when you get back, take care of yourself if you need to.

@aud @xgranade @dave

Guys, is it normal for a parent to track how much their son makes himself cum?

No, it's twisted, invasive, and gross. Even for a conservative Christian household, that's weird and puritanical AF. The highly conservative Christians I grew up around would have objected, been icked out, and said it's between that person and their god.

And to be clear: I am talking about a full on climate denialist, evolution denialist, abusive and controlling, almost-church-deacon dad, and a mom who literally screamed like a tea kettle and then broke plates, ripped out her own hair, and tore her clothes while scream-chanting "no child of mine, no child of mine" after I told her I didn't believe anymore.

@aud @xgranade @dave

@hosford42 @aud @xgranade @dave

That's the point

Dave Alvarado Feb 20

@xgranade @aud yeah I should clarify I'm not saying he's not still a role model or that I don't also still respect him, I'm just saying in this case he very much said some white man in tech shit. Like, he used the word "neoliberal". That's a lapse in judgement when you're trying to defend your autocorrect.

komali_2 Feb 21

@dave what's wrong with the term neolib? Is there a better catchall term for the prevailing social construct of basically every western democracy?

Robert Kingett Feb 21

This will catch you up https://tante.cc/2026/02/20/acting-ethical-in-an-imperfect-world/ @aud @xgranade

Acting ethically in an imperfect world

Life is complicated. Regardless of what your beliefs or politics or ethics are, the way that we set up our society and economy will often force you to act against them: You might not want to fly somewhere but your employer will not accept another mode of transportation, you want to eat vegan but are […]

Smashing Frames

「Carmilla」 luné's villain era Feb 20

@xgranade generally I am very sick of the condescending attitude a lot of boosters tend to have about this. that because people are (justifiably!) upset about LLMs-in-practice, we're being unreasonable or hysterical (a word I use intentionally because it does feel like people mean that even if they don't say it).

I would be inclined to grant more good faith if it felt like any came from the boosters. or if the net effect of "well hold on maybe the answer is in the middle / maybe we can open source models etc etc" wasn't just normalizing this stuff further, on a broader scale.

Mason Loring Bliss Feb 21

@xgranade I've fallen off reading Doctorow. Is he boosting the hallucination engines lately? That would be surprising but I just haven't listened to him recently.

Update: Someone linked his post about using an LLM and raging against purity culture, so I get it now. Disappointing.

Jens Bannmann ⁂Feb 21

@xgranade
Here's an excellent article by @tante criticising that broader rhetorical point: https://tante.cc/2026/02/20/acting-ethical-in-an-imperfect-world/

It's really long, but totally worth the time IMO.

Somewhat tangentially, the backlash on the fedi along the lines of "Cory considered bad now" prompted tante to write a followup article which really gets one thinking: https://tante.cc/2026/02/20/on-alliances/

I recommend reading both.

Acting ethically in an imperfect world

Life is complicated. Regardless of what your beliefs or politics or ethics are, the way that we set up our society and economy will often force you to act against them: You might not want to fly somewhere but your employer will not accept another mode of transportation, you want to eat vegan but are […]

Smashing Frames

@xgranade brilliant, but even in taking this time to explain you’re still too kind.

I go straight to ‘Life’s Too Short’: If I fucking don’t know someone, trust them, respect them, I have (checks population) [zero divided by 8.3 billion] fucks to give about **them**, let alone anything they might have to say. #LifesTooShort

@xgranade also, goddamn, 8.3 billion?

💀 𝓕airchild 💀Feb 20

@xgranade
"I don't think that the Discourse™ around LLMs is *currently* at a place where opposition to boosterism benefits from open-mindedness."

💀 𝓕airchild 💀Feb 20

@xgranade in a better world, there is a use for having a bear (who may maul you, so careful when using the bear), there are identifiable, simple-use benefits based on the merits of a bear.

But in this world we live in now, not everyone needs a bear (who may maul you so careful when using the bear) at home, at work, at school, in your fridge, in your phone, your browser, etc.

The Orange Theme Feb 20

@xgranade I read a great piece (boosted a bit ago) that made that point: if Doctorow had just said something like "hey, I use this tool to fix spelling and grammar stuff, and it's what works for me right now", it probably would've landed fine and people would've moved on. Oh but he just couldn't help himself.

Piper Thunstrom Feb 20

@xgranade I was drafting a thing on principles at my factory job today.

I think at the front of that is probably going to be "having principles is good and important" because, yes, all of this.

Piper Thunstrom Feb 20

By drafting, I mean specifically the critical front work of thinking about what I want to write, why, and what I find important to say.

The actual drafting comes when I'm not doing a repetitive manual task.

Rachael L Feb 21

@xgranade Yes this! This! This is like the "radical centrists" (in Michael Hobbes and other folks usage) who spent years talking about abstract principals of "free speech" to rail against any public criticism of people saying odious things to avoid talking about whether those odious words mattered and what impact they had.

The Orange Theme Feb 20

@xgranade "You don't want to use the lie machine powered by mulching puppies? What are you, some kind of purist?"

The Orange Theme Feb 20

@xgranade "The guy who invented transistors had a puppy mulcher. Do you hate all computers then?"

gusseting Feb 21

Eli the Bearded Feb 21

@theorangetheme @xgranade

Do you eat chicken? Do you know how the chicken industry mulches all the rooster chicks?

Not to defend LLM use, but I am starting to get tired of the PETA-esque rhetoric. Do these really mulch animals? No. Do they do have negative impacts in other ways? Yes.

Is it that hard to focus on real impacts?

Stephen 🌈 (he/him)Feb 22

@elithebearded @theorangetheme @xgranade Metaphors have power. Some are moved by extreme rhetoric. Feel free to complain, but you don’t own the truth. None of us does.

🔥 Mireille Sillander 🔥Feb 20

@xgranade It's like someone kept punching you in the face and when you object they claim it's purity culture that you don't want to be punched in the face.

Words mean things. Wanting to not be made accomplice to useless evil for no good reason is not "purity culture"

Violet Madder Feb 21

@Mimesatwork @xgranade

I mean, if "purity" means, I have an actual conscience and don't feel like participating in industrial levels of exploitation and bullshit, then, sure, call me a purist all day.

Robert Kingett Feb 21

@violetmadder @Mimesatwork @xgranade What really annoyed me, apart from his justification, was him using the term, NeoLiberal because he knew that would raise some hackles

cthos 🐱Feb 20

@xgranade My dude is torching his own credibility to use an LLM to check for typos.

TYPOS.

Regular spell checkers and grammar checkers are, in fact, up to the task, after many decades of careful refinement.

cthos 🐱Feb 20

@hosford42 @xgranade they have a lower than 50% failure rate while not having a bazillion ethical consequences that’s for sure.

The Orange Theme Feb 21

@cthos @xgranade And the fallout is going to be way more expensive than, I don't know, paying an editor? The man writes for a living, surely he has a (very good!) editor?

komali_2 Feb 21

@cthos I think that's less an indictment of Doctorow and more one of the never-LLM crowd, who have clearly become dogmatic Puritans

@komali_2 @cthos
Is it possible, that this pattern of "puritanity" is what's counterproductive, here and in other places?

komali_2 Feb 21

@mikalai I strongly believe yes. Someone else pointed out that this might be something inherent to American progressives - lingering puritanical values that make their analysis focus on whether something or someone has been "tainted" (has sinned) or not.

Every time I get on this site I see American libs and lefties yelling at each other about some aesthetic slight, meanwhile ICE is kicking down doors and shooting people... Seems like a time to focus on solidarity above all else.

@komali_2
Not just Americans. There is warm bias that seduces us into this behaviour, and, ..., not only in America, c'mon.

komali_2 Feb 21

@mikalai you're probably right, I just mostly hear from Americans

@komali_2
Ask American why he/she is. There might be, with high probability, in their past, them or parents, or grand, didn't like somethiny in the old world. And chances are, that thing was a power play we don't like today.
Except now, there is nowhere to migrate. Yet, with tech, with tech we control, we mat better organise.

Stephen 🌈 (he/him)Feb 22

@komali_2 @mikalai It is hard to have solidarity with people who call you names.

Stephen 🌈 (he/him)Feb 22

@[email protected] @[email protected] You can take your straw man somewhere else and burn it.

Stephen 🌈 (he/him)Feb 22

@[email protected] Fuck you. Sincerely, one of the “puritans” you have so eloquently labeled.

@cthos @xgranade
1 - when hands type on autopilot, one will get those.
2 - have you seen thickness of Corry's glasses?
Can you imagine how vision field is bent?
Should such person use some help from computers?