Cassandra is only carbon nowFeb 20
No, opposing LLMs isn't "purity culture." I've seen this now from quite a few different people, and I disagree vehemently. It is good, actually, to have moral principles and hold to them, even when people with more money than you find said principles annoying.
Show threadCassandra is only carbon nowFeb 20

Hell, if you disagree with me and think I'm wrong on the merits, then by all means make that argument! (Preferably not in my mentions, I'm tired of this whole debacle and am not personally open to changing my mind on LLMs right now.)

But "purity culture" isn't an argument, it's an appeal to the idea that holding principles is *bad*.

Show threadCassandra is only carbon nowFeb 20
(What do I mean when I say I'm not open to changing my mind on the issue at the moment? I mean that when I've tried to be open minded, I get flooded with bad-faith bullshit and outright propaganda. My being closed-minded here is a temporary and reasoned position about conserving my own energies, and not letting people DDoS my rationality. I don't think that the Discourse™ around LLMs is *currently* at a place where opposition to boosterism benefits from open-mindedness.)
Show threadCassandra is only carbon nowFeb 20
I wouldn't be saying all this if it was just Doctorow, I'm even fine disagreeing with people I deeply respect. But he's not the only one saying shit like this, and I think it's worth calling out the broader rhetorical point.
Show threadAsta [AMP]Feb 20
@xgranade guessing I missed something Doctorow said... and it sounds like I'm glad I did, because I like that my eyes have not currently rage melted out of my skull.
Show threadDave AlvaradoFeb 20
@aud @xgranade you should probably skip this one. White man in tech said white man in tech shit in a very "never meet your role models" kind of way.
Show threadCassandra is only carbon nowFeb 20

@dave @aud I'm not personally sure I'd go quite that far. Someone I respect said something I vehemently disagree with, it happens. I don't think it'd be reasonable of me to insist that my heroes, as it were, agree with me on even all the important things.

I'm only being as pointed with the above because what he said is *also* something a lot of far worse people have said, and now they have more ammo.

Show threadAsta [AMP]Feb 20
@xgranade @dave it would be really nice if highly visible people quit it with the, "you know, you gotta hand it to the nazis on this one..."
Show threadAsta [AMP]Feb 20
@xgranade @dave also: imagine, if you will, using the term "purity culture" to refer to people (including many LGBTQ people) taking a stand against one of the major tools of christofascists

ffs
Show threadAsta [AMP]Feb 20
@xgranade @dave the current speaker of the house keeps tab on how often his son fucking masturbates

fuck off with "purity culture" to refer to people who are trying to keep culture alive... while many of the same people are also castigated by the actual purity culture fuckers for "sexual deviancy".
Show threadCassandra is only carbon now

@aud @dave All of which goes into why I disagree with him vehemently *on this specific point*. But like, I also say some problematic and wildly untrue things sometimes — I try not to, but that's the result of being human, being loud, and being on the internet.

I cannot think of a single person I follow (present company included) who hasn't made me go "oh lordy" at least once and close the laptop lid.

I feel like this is an "oh lordy" moment for how I relate to Doctorow, I guess?

Feb 20 at 10:36pmWeb
Show threadAsta [AMP]Feb 20
@xgranade @dave yeah... I'm not perfect by any means. But "purity culture" as a... AGH. And it just keeps happening with these highly visible merchants of takes. Ezra Klein*, now Doctorow...

* to be fair I don't think I've ever agreed with anything I've ever heard Klein say
Show threadCassandra is only carbon nowFeb 20

@aud @dave Yeah, the difference in that respect between Doctorow and Klein is that I respect Doctorow because he's right significantly more often than he's not (imho), and more importantly, when he's right he got there by reasoning through it and sharing that reasoning with others.

I'm perfectly fine, by comparison, thinking that the world in which Klein admits he's a furry and chills out a bit would be a better world than this one.

Show threadAsta [AMP]Feb 20
@xgranade @dave I think I'm just gonna log off for a day or two. There's no coming back from "purity culture"

AGAIN, mike johnson is publicly abusing his son and controlling his sexuality. that's fucking "purity culture". christ

I can't with having "attempting to keep humans centered and cared for" compared to mike fucking johnson and all that controlling shit.
Show threadDave AlvaradoFeb 20

@aud @xgranade

💜

We'll be here when you get back, take care of yourself if you need to.