sotolf@kabel42 @rl_dane @amin @thedoctor @mirabilos All optimisation are just different ways of cheating ;)
kabel42@sotolf @rl_dane @amin @thedoctor @mirabilos doesn't cheating imply that you are dishonest about it?
@kabel42 @rl_dane @amin @thedoctor @mirabilos I don't know, it might be just that my mother-tongue's word for it "jukse" also has a connotation of taking the easy way out or a shortcut instead of doing the whole thing. And I transferred that over to english.
@sotolf @rl_dane @amin @thedoctor @mirabilos could be the same for German, where you have the choice of "Schummeln" and "Betrügen" :)
@kabel42 @rl_dane @amin @thedoctor @mirabilos Yeah, cheating as in Schummeln, not as in Betrügen.
I also saw now when looking the word up that it comes from german "juxen" which is "playing around, having fun" which is kind of a fun way that the word has been wandering :)
mirabilos@sotolf @rl_dane @kabel42 @thedoctor @amin cheating can be Schummeln but I think it is usually somewhat more down the scale towards Betrügen, unless explicit in e.g. game
night context
night context
@mirabilos @sotolf @rl_dane @thedoctor @amin
If using assumptions for optimization is cheating, is using Newtonian physics cheating?
If using assumptions for optimization is cheating, is using Newtonian physics cheating?
@kabel42 @mirabilos @rl_dane @thedoctor @amin I mean, I cheat going to work each day, since I'm taking some shortcuts along the way :)
@sotolf @kabel42 @rl_dane @thedoctor @amin there’s meanings of to take a shortcut that aren’t related to cheating ;)
Consider a Venn diagram between both; they merely overlap, not subset.
@mirabilos @sotolf @rl_dane @thedoctor @amin but both are, using assumptions to use a simpler model, right?
@kabel42 @sotolf @rl_dane @thedoctor @amin it’s more like: if you translate, you have to consider meaning. If you, for example, take the word Quelle (in the meaning of “origin of citation” and translate it to Dutch, you get “bron”. If you translate “bron” back to German, you get Brunnen. This does not mean you could substitute the word Brunnen in the original German text, despite Brunnen and Quelle (in the sense of where water comes from the ground) are the same thing, even in German.
@mirabilos @kabel42 @rl_dane @thedoctor @amin And this is one of the reasons why machine translation is as garbage as it is, it can't keep the context well enough, and find recipe sites with recipies for "Informationskapslen" statt Kekse..
@sotolf @kabel42 @rl_dane @thedoctor @amin „kein Weltraum links auf dem Gerät“. „Pfeife zerbrochen.“
@sotolf @kabel42 @rl_dane @thedoctor @amin (and this is why I run my computers including Smartphone on English, or rather, the original language if I know it)
@mirabilos @kabel42 @rl_dane @thedoctor @amin Yeah, sadly with how the world is now, normally the english translation, if there is one is way better than any other ones, which they do with machine translation or something else, even worse with small languages, some times they just decide that norwegian and danish is basically the same, so we just relabel the translation and that's good enough, or you end up with something that must have been translated with a dictionairy and having never used the language before like this:
@sotolf @mirabilos @rl_dane @thedoctor @amin a good translation would be different for english and american
@kabel42 @mirabilos @rl_dane @thedoctor @amin
English (Traditional)
English (Simplified)
@sotolf @mirabilos @rl_dane @thedoctor @amin yes :)
although there is a lot of simplification still available
although there is a lot of simplification still available
@kabel42 @mirabilos @rl_dane @thedoctor @amin
Yeah the fucker that decided that "ennui" is a good word should be taken behind the shed...
@kabel42 @mirabilos @rl_dane @thedoctor @amin
It says ennui, is pronounced "ahn-wie" and just means "sadness" :p
@sotolf @mirabilos @rl_dane @thedoctor @amin so not english? https://dict.leo.org/german-english/ennui
@kabel42 @mirabilos @rl_dane @thedoctor @amin
Is english, but a loanword from french, which explains the fucked pronounciation :P
@sotolf @mirabilos @rl_dane @thedoctor @amin it's always the french with the weird spelling, can someone teach french sensible spelling?
thedoctor@kabel42 Sure because there's absolutely nothing weird about English spelling whatsoever.
@thedoctor @sotolf @mirabilos @rl_dane @amin its always* the frensh words, the germanic and celtic words are fine :)
@kabel42 @thedoctor @sotolf @rl_dane @amin and (± what kind of pronunciation you use) the latin ones as well, just not those who took a detour through France
@mirabilos @thedoctor @sotolf @rl_dane @amin and then there are the words that used to have sane spelling that got changed because frensh looks high class or something
@kabel42 @thedoctor @sotolf @rl_dane @amin yeah.
Funny thing, I only passed English classes at school because I could derive all¹ the fancy words from Latin, making the teacher think I actually know English…
① a sufficient amount, anyway
@mirabilos @kabel42 @thedoctor @rl_dane @amin
I don't actually know german either, I've just pretended enough around people here that they think they understand me :p
R.L. Dane 
🍵 
@sotolf @mirabilos @kabel42 @thedoctor @amin
So... you're basically speaking Norwegian with a German accent to your coworkers? ;)
@rl_dane @mirabilos @kabel42 @thedoctor @amin Not really, I'm speaking Austro-Bavarian German with an accent, it's more a joke on how I got there, it was a lot of faking, just directly translating a norwegian compound word into german and so on, by now I've been here long enough that people have stopped asking me where I'm from, so if I'm not that great at it, at least I'm speaking it confidently enough that people don't feel like telling me how good I am in german, which happens a lot in the beginning :p
Austro-Bavarian German with an accent
That sounds patently terrifying.
@thedoctor @rl_dane @mirabilos @kabel42 @brakeoutgaming
Well, it's a scandinavian accent :p so that's at least something.
@thedoctor @rl_dane @mirabilos @kabel42 @brakeoutgaming I mean our accent has been called a lot of stuff, but I don't think terrifying ever was one of them :p
@rl_dane @mirabilos @kabel42 @brakeoutgaming @sotolf I mean more the combo of any accent with Bavarian-Austrian German.
shudder
@thedoctor @rl_dane @mirabilos @brakeoutgaming @kabel42 I'll see if I can figure out uploading a recording, the last time I struggled with finding a format that gts accepted :p
@rl_dane @mirabilos @brakeoutgaming @kabel42 @thedoctor
scheiss nervös bin ich gwesen, aber so in etwa :p
@sotolf @rl_dane @brakeoutgaming @thedoctor @kabel42 that sounds like rather mild bavarian, still very understandable but with the alemannic vowel shift
@mirabilos @rl_dane @brakeoutgaming @thedoctor @kabel42 Yeah, I'm not having a deep dialect really since I learnt Hochdeutsch first, and it's mostly stuff that I picked up by living here, and aligning myself to fit in as well as I can :)
@rl_dane @mirabilos @brakeoutgaming @thedoctor @sotolf nice, ich würde dir glauben dass du von da bist. Ich hatte jetzt eher auf Österreich als Bayern getippt.
@kabel42 @thedoctor @sotolf @rl_dane @brakeoutgaming Österreicher haben mehr Singsang, normalerweise… wobei vielleicht nicht mehr in Kärnten ("Balkanösis", "halbe Slowenen"?)
@kabel42 @brakeoutgaming @sotolf @thedoctor @rl_dane Schwaben versteh ich nicht. (Stuttgart und so.)
@mirabilos @kabel42 @brakeoutgaming @thedoctor @rl_dane Hmm, jetzt habe ich wieder falsch gedacht, die Windischen war die die ich gemeint habe, die halb balkaneser :)
@kabel42 @rl_dane @mirabilos @brakeoutgaming @thedoctor
Ja ich bin ja auch in österreich, die österreichischen dialekte so wie der Kärntnerdialekt stammt lei ab von die Bayerische, und werden desweng Austrobayerisch genannt, zumindest im englischen :p
@kabel42 @rl_dane @mirabilos @brakeoutgaming @thedoctor
But that both of you were saying nice things about it makes me happy :) I'm always a bit self-concious speaking german, not quite sure if I'm doing well, most people are too polite to say anything anyway :p But that it sounds at least not very foreign is nice to know :0
@sotolf @mirabilos @brakeoutgaming @kabel42 @thedoctor
To my obviously very untrained ear, it sounded like you were weaving back and forth between a Scandinavian language and German. ;)
@rl_dane @sotolf @brakeoutgaming @kabel42 @thedoctor hm, I heard just a mild bavarian, sounding native.
@sotolf I'll admit that I'm not good at all at identifying dialects but if I didn't know better, I'd have thought you were Swiss :D
@thedoctor @sotolf @rl_dane @mirabilos @brakeoutgaming that's still generally southern german, they do sound somewhat similar
@kabel42 Eh, not my corner of the world, I just can't tell.
@thedoctor @sotolf @mirabilos @brakeoutgaming @kabel42
Hah, that's fun. :D
@thedoctor @rl_dane @mirabilos @brakeoutgaming @kabel42 Ah, appearantly you're not the only one, because I've gotten that a couple of times :p