Since EVs drain more battery heating the cabin in winter but still need to keep the windows defrosted, how about defrost wires on the windshield, just like the rear window? Even the side windows?
Would that not be more electrically efficient?
Has it been done before?
Discuss!
Source: I keep seeing "tips" on maximising range by using the seat heaters instead of cabin HVAC. That works for about two minutes until the windows are fogged up. Not an option
#EV #winterDriving
@DenOfEarth it does work! I only use it when the window is really frozen, otherwise I use the normal heater. :)
I charge the car every night, so I do enjoy the luxury of 22 degrees in the car. ;)
@fiskelandslaget
I had problems early on when I first got it (used, in 2022) and it turned out to be a problem with the 12V battery which powers circuits including the on-board charger. I replaced it and haven't had a problem since.
You can even do it yourself - I followed a YouTube video that showed how to first disconnect the high-voltage circuit to proceed safely.
@DenOfEarth side windows would be tricky since they go up and down. Wires connecting door to window would be a failure point.
Electrically heated windscreens are a thing (see: Land Rovers) but, again, expensive and uncommon. Some cars (Subaru?) offer heated wiper rests at the base of the windscreen, so at least the wipers can get un-frozen, maybe.
Heating is less bad since (many?) cars moved from the electric resistive heat in my 2018 model 3 to heat pumps. But Iβm not sure about the magnitude of the change. We had to replace the electric heater in our 3 a few months ago; it failed.
Fun fact, my diesel x5 apparently also has an electric resistive heater to supplement the typical coolant heater core. I guess diesels take too long to warm up for proper BMW cabin comfort?
@rconti @SamanthaJaneSmith
I remember block heaters being a thing in the seventies.
They were IIRC mostly a dealer-installed thing, essentially a resistive heater bolted on to the engine block and powered by 120V. People would come home and plug their car into an extension cord for the long cold night.
That seems to have gone out of style but it's not like our winters have gotten any warmer. Maybe advances in synthetic oils have made them superfluous?
Is that still a viable option in Sweden?
@rconti @DenOfEarth Yep everyone has one, standard on pretty much all cars although these days most I think heat the oil in the pan. We also typically have it recharge the battery at the same time as sitting around in -30c drains a battery quick as well as a connection for a fan heater to warm the inside. Mine also has a secondary small diesel Eberspacher to warm the car when you can't plug it in.
I have yet to see an all electric car sit for a week in -30 and then have a charge to get anywhere and warm the car.
@rconti @SamanthaJaneSmith
I totally agree though with an EV the same could probably be achieved with no additional hardware simply by keeping it on the charger, with probably some change in programming to keep the cabin and battery heater on at a level that doesn't exceed the amperage from the charger.
I've left my EV outside on two consecutive -25 nights and it still showed 100% charge when I went to move it. I worry more about the 12V battery to be honest.
@[email protected] I had problems early on when I first got it (used, in 2022) and it turned out to be a problem with the 12V battery which powers circuits including the on-board charger. I replaced it and haven't had a problem since. You can even do it yourself - I followed a YouTube video that showed how to first disconnect the high-voltage circuit to proceed safely.
@rconti @DenOfEarth Yeah I think most times it will be ok but I have seen so many people struggle here when they have gone away for a week, there is no spare place to top up and the EV car at the station is frozen solid and they can't drive home. But most places it is fine.
I appreciate the environmental issues but when I am away in the mountains I prefer to have my own fuel with me but I am old.
Oh and I always carry a separate 12v jump start battery so I don't have to rely on the one in the car. I can charge that from a solar panel or snowmobile.
@rconti @SamanthaJaneSmith
I don't blame you at all. Fuel tech has been around for over a century and it's had time to work out the bugs. EVs are still climbing up that road.
I've thought of putting solar panels on my house to not be as dependent on the grid or fossil fuels.
I saw something recently that said "You can't own a coal mine, a refinery, or a nuclear plant. But you _can_ put solar panels on your roof. Now ask yourself where all the disinformation about solar energy is coming from."
@rconti @DenOfEarth Yeah they seem to me to be a no-brainer and compulsory in new builds. We are quite lucky that much of our energy is hydro and cheap but we end up selling a lot of it to Finland and then having to pay more than they do....
It's so screwed up.
Anyway I plan the Volvo I have to be the last car I will ever own.
Attached: 1 image Soon we'll all wish we too had an old DB5 tucked away in a garage, with no computers or GPS. #WeirdCarMastodon @[email protected] @[email protected]
@rconti @DenOfEarth
Cables connecting side windows would be just as hard as cables connecting the door to the car to allow for rolling windows up/down at the press of a button.
I think most car manufacturers have some vague idea of how to solve that one.
@DenOfEarth: The Belgian 2CV based roadster Radar (at least the models from 1959 onwards) had a CitroΓ«n DS/ID rear window as windscreen and it's said that they had heated windscreens because of that.
There only seems to be a German Wikipedia article about it: https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radar_(belgische_Automarke)
Only English written article I found, but it mentions the DS rear window: https://www.totalkitcar.com/2024/11/28/the-citroen-you-may-not-have-heard-of-the-2cv-radar/
(The numbers and owner story seem though to slightly differ between these two sources.)
@DenOfEarth Fog proof glass for lenses and sensors exists .
I'm surprised that one of the higher end car makers hasn't used it for windshields yet.
@Basmitharts
I've never heard of that. Lenses and sensors are rather small - is it possible that doing so on the scale of a windshield would be impossible or too cost prohibitive? Replacement modern windshields with all their sensors etc are already pretty expensive.
I remember at Harrods long ago you could buy this waxy soap thing that you could polish onto glass and make it immune to frost buildup, for a few weeks anyway before reapplying more. It was mostly intended for bathroom mirrors.
@DenOfEarth as it happens I went to see a few EVs recently - Ford seem to have some kind of patent on "invisible" (near invisible) heating elements embedded directly into the front windscreen (possibly back too, would make sense)
So I guess, yes, it has been done, but Ford own the idea
@DenOfEarth it was just the EV Puma (Gen-E, is it?) ... although it was the showroom model so I guess it may have been an extra (which would probably make it above budget for us!)
I think it might be what they call "Quickclear"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quickclear
@paul
Wow so it's been around for a while. The page says high current draw which I'm not surprised seeing as it's resistive wires, but using the rear defroster doesn't usually reduce the range calculation on my car unless duh it's simply hidden from the calculation? Someone needs to do some science on this... And it won't be me!
It also says the wires interfere with GPS and radio antennas so maybe that's one reason it hasn't been deployed more recently: mobile phones in the car.
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