@RustRaven @sebsauvage

J'en suis arrivé à la même conclusion : c'est jamais ton téléphone, c'est le leur.
Donc LA solution c'est : pas de data. Du tout.
Un bon vieux GSM et c'est joué (ou un dumbphone, mais ils se touchent sur les prix, un GSM c'est 30 balles et la charge tient une semaine).

@Yrrussaj @RustRaven @sebsauvage

Oui. Mais y'a plein de GSM qui sont 4G compatibles (même si ça sert à rien pour eux).

@jmoupah @GrapheneOS @Yrrussaj @RustRaven @sebsauvage

Je ne dis pas le contraire. De même que Lineage, Iode, /eos. Mais toutes ces solutions dépendent du bon vouloir de Gogol. Le seul OS qui remplace totalement la couche android c'est PostMarketOS, hélas c'est pas mature pour du grand public.

@GrapheneOS @jmoupah @Yrrussaj @RustRaven @sebsauvage

If you think it's safe and secure for the user
to use android or apple, which steal all your datas without your consent, then we don't have the same definition of what security and privacy should be...

@LearnToLivePrivate @GrapheneOS @jmoupah @Yrrussaj @RustRaven @sebsauvage

I dont use lineage, graphene, iode or else. I dont use smartphone AT ALL. Because I think that a smartphone, today, is not yours but theirs.
You didn't get my point : AOSP is depending on google, and now google aims to shorten the leash, right ?
If Google decides that AOSP is over, then all those solutions are over too,, because they stand on the android system. It doesn't replace it, it's just a layer on top...
So : GSM

@LearnToLivePrivate @GrapheneOS @jmoupah @Yrrussaj @RustRaven @sebsauvage

another funny thing with GrapheneOS is that you HAVE to buy a Google phone in order to have a de-googled phone.

Ironical.

@GrapheneOS @LearnToLivePrivate @jmoupah @Yrrussaj @RustRaven @sebsauvage

Read again, I didnt promote any products except low tech GSM.
I said that Graphene, like the others, is based on AOSP and depends on Google.
And if you don't see the irony in buying a Google device to get rid of Google, well I do 🙂

That said, I agree with you on one thing : Graphene seems to be the best AOSP-based OS, according to all websecurity experts.

But my GSM holds one week without recharging 🙂

@attilax @LearnToLivePrivate @jmoupah @Yrrussaj @RustRaven @sebsauvage Using a dumb phone without any form of private/secure messaging is even worse. Dumb phones lack basic security updates and protections. The lack of functionality also applies to security patches and protections. They're entirely dependent on cellular instead of being very functional with it turned off.

Modern smartphones are much more secure computing devices than a laptop or desktop at both a hardware and software level.

@attilax @LearnToLivePrivate @jmoupah @Yrrussaj @RustRaven @sebsauvage AOSP is a much more private and secure platform to start from than the desktop Linux software stack. The vast majority of privacy and security experts acknowledge that iOS and AOSP are much more private and secure operating systems than the desktop Linux software stack along with the same for an iPhone/Pixel compared to a laptop/desktop.

GrapheneOS uses Pixels because they're the most secure Android devices available so far.

@RustRaven @attilax @LearnToLivePrivate @jmoupah @Yrrussaj @sebsauvage SailfishOS is largely closed source and has atrocious privacy and security compared to AOSP.

Jolla was closely tied to the Russian government and directly working with them long after they invaded Crimea in 2014. They've supported attacks on the GrapheneOS project and team along with spreading lots of misinformation about it. Why would we support a highly unethical company making awful slop pushed with false marketing?

@GrapheneOS @attilax @LearnToLivePrivate @jmoupah @Yrrussaj @sebsauvage

Yeah, so... You're implicitly saying that full US tech (hw + sw) is more secure or private than the rest...

What is your hw/sw basis, again ? Google... Regarding privacy... What a joke. And Pixels are made in China, aren't they ? What a combo! There is no "trust me bro" anymore regarding US tech.

Thank you for informing me about @jolla. But my question was : what are your sources (I just want to read them to make my own opinion).

Lastly, Graphene could be based on another sw/os stack... That would be a real innovation. Don't you think ?

@GrapheneOS @jolla

Without a credible source, you're just expressing your opinion. Your're the one telling a story (that may be true, I don't know), expecting others to trust you.

Regarding Linux (the kernel, you know it was created in Finland, Europe, right ?), code contributions nowadays are made from everywhere. Everyone can audit the code, remove unnecessary parts (via the config ) and compile it according to the needs. Regarding distros, big parts are also made in other countries, like KDE, - Germany - or Mastodon - Germany also...

Maybe, reusing useful parts of the kernel, including some drivers, could be a good starting point. I agree that, regarding the components, it's on the complicated side. But look : today Linux is able to run everywhere. Moreover, AOSP code could be a good start to figure out how to start over. The thing is there is a demand for alternatives. China, Russia have they own OS based on Linux.

@RustRaven

> Without a credible source, you're just expressing your opinion. Your're the one telling a story (that may be true, I don't know), expecting others to trust you.

It's widely documented public knowledge. Jolla themselves acknowledges it but tries to spin it to be less bad than it is. The fact is that they partnered with the Russian government after their invasion of Crimea and the Donbass in 2014, then worked closely with them for years. They got cold feet in 2022. Look it up.

@GrapheneOS

As you didn't bother to give me a single source, I've looked up. Apparently, they have no russian investors anymore now.

But, today US is partnering with Russia, threatening the world with AI, tariffs, war, sanctions...

Listen... I like open source, community projects, new ideas, human and benevolent technologies. aso. And I am completely fed up with US tech, US corps, US attitude, US subscriptions, US data harvesting, US defaultism, US thefts, aso.

I consider equally what comes from US, Russia or China.. Fortunately, alternatives exist. Maybe, they not very convenient enough today, but I don't care. One has to start somewhere.

But the initial topic was Google tagging as malware an entire ecosystem. Walled gardens are not for me. Graphene could have been a strong alternative. But it's not, because it's tied to Google. False sense of security and complete dependency.

Thank you for having shared your point of view. 😉

@LearnToLivePrivate

I don't know if your message was addressed to me specifically, but there is no hate. I am just being fed up by big tech practices, that happen to be US corps. As I said, I have similar pov regarding Russia and China.

For now, it's rather fair to say that US big tech have vastly destroyed confidence in their products with their practices.

Open source projects, with a good and clear governance, can change this. I have huge respect for the Linux Foundation, the EFF, aso. That is proof that US can make great stuff. I want to see more of these, and less enshitificated US products. Competition is good, and the next winners will be those who truly care about their customers. That is what I support, even if it's a US product.

This is why I was curious about @jolla.