Fesiug
mccTFW the decentralized social network is down because the centralized service it uses to function is down
Adriano@mcc Every time I see the acronym PDS in this kind of context I think of like a phone box.
"yea the PDS is broken, we got a tech looking at it"
Luna Lactea@mcc CloudFlare or Hetzner💔
@jackemled @zygmyd So there's that but the above post is about Bluesky which builds the centralized chokepoints directly into the app/protocol
zygmydThere's a great discussion here about how what people think of as cottage internet services still rely on a massive industrial base providing hardware and services at scale for frequently economic reasons. For instance even if everybody had a Mastodon instance in their home there would still probably not be a sensible cost base for several telco COs in a neighbourhood.
Sassinake! ᑐ ∪ ∩ ⊂There's that.
Jason Petersen (he)@mcc I think this is a joke but also so few people think of Bluesky as decentralized i think nearly everyone assumed you mean mastodon
@jason Not a joke, Bluesky actually did go down for about 15-20 minutes this morning, I'm not sure which component but whatever it was also took down alternate frontends such as blacksky.community (but not staging.blacksky.community, which is the new appview)
occult@mcc oof, how can anyone continue to put real investment into that ecosystem with a straight face?
The VC's will eventually want some ROI and they will get blood from those stones.
geolaw
Taggart 
@mcc @jason Nothing's been posted publicly as far as I can see, but perhaps related to this: https://docs.bsky.app/blog/relay-rollout
Inga stands with 🇺🇦 🇵🇸
Nelson Lopez@mcc i mean to be fair, fedi has the same issue where a huge amount of users is in mastodon.social
also, blacksky is a thing
@nelson 1. but u r not on mastodon.social. so if mastodon.social went down you could keep posting
2. i use blacksky and it appears to have gone down at the same time as bluesky this morning! i was able to get on by using staging.bluesky which is rudy's long-promised "alternate stack"
I mean, Red Dwarf exists, nothing about ATProto specifies that you require an AppView or centralized relay, the main issue really is that everyone's on the same PDS
Wafrn actually doesn't even touch the AppView and it federates pretty well with everything else, most people say there isn't much of a difference other than the architectural difference of not having a centralized stream of information which is useful on its own right, for stuff like algo feeds
I do agree with your point though, Bluesky (as a product) is still largely centralized, it's just not a problem of the network itself but the implementation of the "defacto way" to interact with it
@nelson ATProto as I see it is largely an exercise in building a protocol which *could* be used in an open way in practice but in practice this will always be about as difficult as it can possibly be without it actually being banned. BSPBLLC moved the technical barriers to third party participation out of the technical layer into the social/economic layer, but they're still barriers, and economic barriers are arguably harder to surmount than technical ones
@mcc Really valid, I like to have conversations like these with people who clearly know what they’re talking about.
I didn’t really see the glaring flaw with the way ATProto is built not just as technology and infrastructure but the actual organizational flaws and overall centralized governance of the protocol designers, I will consider this in the future.
I still have lots of hope on it, I guess it mostly comes from my total lack of hope in ActivityPub as a decentralized social network protocol, but I do think there are a couple of interesting ideas in how it solves a lot of the usual problems with decentralized social networks. I unironically like the concept of an AppView, it’s just not very easy to distribute.
I wonder what you think about Versia /genq /lh
FediThing 
It's nowhere near as bad though, mastodon.social is only about 30% of the entire network.
It would be great indeed if people moved from Bluesky to Blacksky etc.
But am guessing if that happened in significant numbers, Bluesky would lock it down and make it impossible. Their financial incentives are to keep it centralised so that they can sell it off. Bluesky's staff are paid in equity, and the equity goes up in value if they're bought out.
@FediThing @mcc huh i thought i had blocked you
gabboman the wafrn devDidnt notice it here
At this point we are working on avoiding use of bsky apis
#Except-in-a-future-feature-wherebusers-will-be-able-to-get-custom-feeds
LiquidParasyte
monkee 
Furbland's Very Cool Mastodon™
Kaito