About Bluesky and federation:
Edit: There might be some mistakes, and my information could be outdated, but the point still stands - Bluesky wasn't built on 100% federation from the start.

I've been wondering about Bluesky's decentralization again. I can't think of any reason why I'd want to self-host Bluesky in its current form. I cannot 100% self host "my own Bluesky".

Their main selling points for building their own protocol were easier migration and better discoverability, but right now there's no simple way to migrate my Bluesky account to my own instance. And hosting the centralized parts yourself isn't really possible, or if it were, not affordable, they haven't made that feasible, by design, it seems.

Even if you self-host a PDS, Bluesky's Relay only indexes up to 10 accounts from it. You can run more, but they won't federate, the central infrastructure decides what gets seen. They control this (source: https://docs.bsky.app/blog/self-host-federation#:~:text=For%20a%20smooth%20transition%20into,for%20everyone%20in%20the%20ecosystem.). You can self-host a PDS (Personal Data Server), but you still depend on Bluesky's centralized Relay and AppView. There's no production-ready alternative infrastructure from what I gather.

It feels like I'd be renting a room in a hotel that someone else is running anyway, when I want my own hotel.

If Mastodon gGmbH vanishes tomorrow, my instance keeps running and federating with everyone else. If Bluesky PBC vanishes, the ecosystem would need to scramble to stand up replacement infrastructure that doesn't really exist yet.

ATProto keeps getting evaluated on its promises while other systems get evaluated on their merits. The "portability" selling point depends on infrastructure that isn't mature enough to actually catch you if Bluesky falls.

I trust W3C, the builders and fathers of the World Wide Web, ActivityPub and the Fediverse.

#Decentralization #SelfHosting #SelfHosted #Mastodon #Fediverse #Bluesky #Servers

Early Access Federation for Self-Hosters | Bluesky

For a high-level introduction to data federation, as well as a comparison to other federated social protocols, check out the Bluesky blog.

@rolle

I have too many corrections on this one.
Pds a year ago when i got to 100 accounts I had to get in contact with someone on the team, now is higher

The relay and app view: have you seen appviewlite? Its quite light

Regarding production ready alternatives: blacksky. Seriously. Blacksky

The idea is different. Fedi is trains and bsky are trucks. Knowing about one doesn’t means you know the other. The architecture is too different.

And a lot of the times the question is “wait you dont get railed i mean use rails?”

If bsky llc vanished tomorrow it would be fine. Seriously

Its a bit late here but if you want we can keep this conversation later in a better medium than this one, this one will make both of us look like confrontational pricks

@gabboman I for 1 would love to hear more. I understand that you can keep custody of your own key, but I still don't get it what is the vision for self hosting, bootstrap, and the "scaling down"...

The idea for self hosting is the pds that does data stuff. The architecture is very different to the fedi one.

Making a simple “amnesic” relay is super cheap and simple. There are a lot of simple pieces and you can make all of them without bsky.

In this moment the only centralised stuff is the did:plc and they are working ok giving that to another open entity like w3c

(Did plc: hello yes account did something here is hosted in this domain (wich can chage))

The idea isn’t scaling down to a raspberry pi but a 30€ dedicated server from ovh at minimum if you want to host THE WHOLE STACK.

The pds? Yeah a potato pc is fine and less resource intensive than any fedi server

@gabboman

> did:plc →w3c

Can we interoperate if we end up with uhh idk w3c-us and anti-MIC w3c-eu or something?

Once it gets standarised