justsoup 
Why in the world is GNOME disabling middle click? That feels like such a tiny innocuous change with no real bearing on anything? Like, that just messes up users' workflows that use it for no reason at all, and since GNOME is the default desktop on a lot of distros, this will mess up non-technical users and they'll file bugs. I don't want to deal with this from a distro's perspective. I know you can re-enable the option... *from GNOME tweaks*, which they don't support anymore...
I also see everybody only linking The Register's article on this. Here's the actual sources.
https://phabricator.services.mozilla.com/D277804
https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/gsettings-desktop-schemas/-/merge_requests/119
kontrollierterWahnwitz@justsoup Non-technical users that know about the middle click. And file bugs. Sure.
@kontrollierterWahnwitz Most non-technical users will just go back to an OS that "works" because they'll assume their mouse suddenly not working is either a hardware failure or a bug.
And, yes, non-technical users know about middle-click. This isn't some hidden feature that nobody uses. Now, there are no sources backing up whether they do or don't, that would be a good idea to collect feedback on and iterate based on that. Entirely slashing a feature at a whim is a very bad decision.
@justsoup To which other OS that uses the middle click for pasting do they go back?
@kontrollierterWahnwitz Older version of Ubuntu? Non-GNOME desktop? Maybe they'll give up on Linux and go to Windows where things break but at least they have a community that finds fixes for them?
My question is, why is the option not in settings if its meant to be toggled? There is already a mouse settings tab.
nina@justsoup @kontrollierterWahnwitz windows has middle click paste? news to me
I think he just got the news wrong in a way that GNOME was disabling the middle click at all.
So he is creating a straw man user that...
... is non-technical.
... but knows about the middle click paste.
... thinks the hardware is broken.
... and then files a software bug.
... is unable to update their distribution which will preserver the current behavior.
... distro hops without backing their $HOME up.
It's getting funny.
@kontrollierterWahnwitz I am sorry that I came across as trying to make a strawman. That was not my intention at all. I think the way I explained my position was a bit disjointed and made it look like I was trying to make a type of user that doesn't exist. I do not like you talking around me and still pinging me though.
@justsoup That was not fair communication from my side. Sure. Please excuse me.
Please be also aware that when you are following certain hashtags, you will currently literally get bombed with this particular news and quite strong opinions connected to this news.
You can always agree or disagree with things a team of developers do. But I personally think at the end of the day it was too much criticism about a too small change here - often from people who are not even affected by the change.
🤝
@kontrollierterWahnwitz I did not know that the GNOME hashtag was being flooded, that's my bad. I agree with the last bit. Somebody can always critique a technical decision, but that doesn't mean they can personally attack the person / group making it. I feel like the open-source community has forgotten that as-of recently.
@justsoup I also wonder why people have so strong feelings when it comes to GNOME.
I use Linux since SuSE 9.1 and even back then GNOME was known for making strict decisions when it comes to the user interface.
So, what do people expect? If you are not fine with it, you can easily switch to one of numerous alternatives. That was a lot harder in the 2000s.
I'm happy that we can have a good conversation now.
@kontrollierterWahnwitz I think the main issue, for me personally, is that the changes are not communicated in the UI. Sometimes I'll go looking for an option or feature that used to exist and it will just not be there. Then I'll usually go online looking for what happened and find out the change *there*. Something as simple as a GUI telling me the major changes of a new release would do wonders. I am not a GNOME dev, so I know I cannot drive development, but I do at least want to know about it.
@justsoup I currently use a convertible. So I switch between Desktop/Laptop usage and Tablet mode. In this setup GNOME is an ideal choice for me. Also, Fedora Silverblue makes very much sense for me, since their release cycles are in sync. So I always look in detail in their Release Notes what are the changes in each version. I also have to say, I never lost a feature that I loved since I switched to GNOME.
@kontrollierterWahnwitz I've been an avid GNOME user for quite a while. I loved libadwaita, the control center thing they made, and all those changes. (I did switch to Plasma on my laptop just because it was a bit snappier on my hardware, but my phone uses GNOME.) But, I don't follow all changes so sometimes I get blindsided. I just check if an update will break my system and update.
@justsoup As a teenager I did not like Gnome 2.x very much. So I used to use KDE 3.x.
At the same time I preferred GnomeTV over KDETV and GAIM (Pidgin) over Kopete, etc.
I know what you are talking about. 😄
Luckily, using the libadwaita apps in an other environment is not such a pain as mixing GTK and QT back then.
sounddrill 
@justsoup @kontrollierterWahnwitz I love how "AI search" nonsense makes this even even worse since the content it is RAG-ing is outdated this way, force feeding the user outdated slop
While a reddit thread or an official announcement usually helps, sometimes even that isn't documented at all, so we rely on old blogposts as sources which don't have the change included.
@kontrollierterWahnwitz @q66 @justsoup you say this but a user with any 5 of these 6 points is not hard to find, just saying 
I have been here, I have seen people here.
@q66 The way I wrote that made it sound like I meant going to Windows for middle-click. What I meant was, if a user faces any friction when using Linux they quit and go to Windows. I've seen this many times over with family members who switch to Linux and then get minorly inconvenienced by an update and go back to Windows.
Why does that hypothetical non-technical Ubuntu user - that knows about the middle click for pasting - not just hit the update button when it appears?
pan@justsoup well, my friend moved to Linux yesterday, he was sharing his screen and tried to scroll using the middle click, he leaked me his password, twice, because when we disabled it we found that chromium didn't respect the setting (until a week ago, but that didn't land yet)
Phil
Victoria 🏳️⚧️@justsoup non technical users do not know of middle click. And they do not go to gitlab to report bugs. And reasoining litereally in links you linked
@tragivictoria Most non-technical users will just go back to an OS that "works" because they'll assume their mouse suddenly not working is either a hardware failure or a bug.
And, yes, non-technical users know about middle-click. This isn't some hidden feature that nobody uses. Now, there are no sources backing up whether they do or don't, that would be a good idea to collect feedback on and iterate based on that. Entirely slashing a feature at a whim is a very bad decision.
@justsoup neither macOS nor windows have middle click paste and the feature itself is very hidden and most users do not realise it exists.
Tywèle@justsoup @tragivictoria The feature is not being removed entirely. It just won't be the default anymore.
@Tywele @tragivictoria That's why I said disabling instead of removing. I know it isn't being removed, but I think relegating it to dconf effectively removes it for any sane user.
@justsoup @tragivictoria any user who cares about this feature will be savvy enough to enable it again.
@tragivictoria @Tywele Moving it to settings makes sense. I feel like this is the equivalent of tap-to-click vs physically clicking, which already has a setting.
@justsoup always hated middle click paste (because sometimes i click by accident) and know exactly 0 non-technical users that use it
it's just an x11 quirk that is mostly used by long-time x11 power users, i don't see any issue with disabling it considering there is established copy paste workflow that's way less easy to use by accident
this will make middle click instead be the auto scroll which is a *way* more familiar pattern from pretty much every other mainstream platform ever
it's just an x11 quirk that is mostly used by long-time x11 power users, i don't see any issue with disabling it considering there is established copy paste workflow that's way less easy to use by accident
this will make middle click instead be the auto scroll which is a *way* more familiar pattern from pretty much every other mainstream platform ever
φ
Sinnamon (despicable arc 😈)@q66 @justsoup I must be the only one who not only uses it, but finds the fact that its clipboard is independent from the ^C/^V one really useful. I certainly would be pissed off if that feature was taken away from me and would find my way to reenable it no matter what, "sysadmin style"
https://3d.xkcd.com/705/
https://3d.xkcd.com/705/
42lux
grinceur
Calicosine@justsoup Personally I find it annoying and with my old mouse's scroll wheel getting stuck, I'd sometimes accidentally paste random stuff into Visual Studio Code (running in Xwayland) and have to remove it because it would do a mouse click. Literally the only time I use it is with the foot terminal emulator when I'm testing stuff in LabWC and Sway. They do need to make sure it's easy to turn back on like KDE has a toggle for, though.
Sertonix
cyber whore@justsoup everybody fucking hates middle click paste