Aral BalkanFunny how folks in the West will debate the ethics of going back in time to kill baby Hitler whenever the topic of time travel comes up but no one ever considers going back to stop colonialism.
🤔
Cogito Ergo Disputo@aral wouldn't that be like trying to stop the wind with your hands? Did colonialism not stem from what were other practices in existence since the dawn of mankind? How was colonialism different from the land conquest enacted by Huns and Mongols? Did the concept of empire not exist way before what we call colonialism? Think Romans, Aztecs, Mayans, Turks, and so on. Who would you exactly kill or lock in a box and throw the key away to prevent colonialism? Maybe the first human?
L'égrégore André ꕭꕬ@Disputatore @aral There are some really obvious, named people to take out to avoid the worst horrors of genocide/colonialism, some named ships to sink, some named battles to sway or stop.
We know a lot of history from a lot of the world and there's no problem pinpointing a lot of worst contacts.
So trying the "we're the virus" rhetoric on a damn hypothetical thought experiment just showed you're enthusiastically comfortable with the status quo.
We know a lot of history from a lot of the world and there's no problem pinpointing a lot of worst contacts.
So trying the "we're the virus" rhetoric on a damn hypothetical thought experiment just showed you're enthusiastically comfortable with the status quo.
@Disputatore @aral Ah, "political compass:left 3,25/libertarian 5,79" on your profile confirms it.
@Mabande @aral it shows I'm an enthusiastic fan of logic. And your comment shows you're not. Your comment also shows you're very fast jumping to conclusions. You also seem to not take conclusions out of your own thinking process. Your solution would mean conducting mass killing to prevent mass killing. Which deserves a standing ovation.
@Disputatore @aral Let's take a look at my "mass killings" with some examples:
Talking Hitler and the top Nazis out of the equation to prevent the extermination camps; sinking ships of slavers to prevent the Atlantic slave trade; deposing a king and his generals to prevent a battle that would lead to a genocidal conquest.
Thing is, I didn't even say they need to be killed, that's on you, but stopping people hellbent on murdering innocent people is apparently a bad thing. Even hypothetically.
Talking Hitler and the top Nazis out of the equation to prevent the extermination camps; sinking ships of slavers to prevent the Atlantic slave trade; deposing a king and his generals to prevent a battle that would lead to a genocidal conquest.
Thing is, I didn't even say they need to be killed, that's on you, but stopping people hellbent on murdering innocent people is apparently a bad thing. Even hypothetically.
@Disputatore but anyway: ciao.
Full Metal Archaeopteryx@Disputatore
I mean, removing Genghis Khan might have been enough to derail capitalism for a time...
@DelilahTech @aral how do you fancy that?
@Disputatore
His whole thing was making sure his people got fancy shit
He was like, ooh silk is nice—invades China
Wow, these spices are great! Invades India, et cetera
You do have a point about humans always moving in and displacing the locals, who have to go displace someone else, ad nauseum
But! The great Khan, he wanted shit, and the only way to get shit was to take it. But that wasn't enough! He was addicted to it, and so was his horde
In order to keep the trade moving, he had to control the sources and make sure those goods made their way to Mongolia
He unified and made the silk road safer and more reliable
Would the Venetians have risen to prominence if that hadn't happened? Dunno. But then the Dutch and the Portuguese took Venice's lead (and their accounting), dragging the rest of Europe into the "let's take over a place and steal all their shit" game
If there was one emperor who changed the invasion game from "I wanna be the boss of everything" to "I wanna make money", it was Genghis
@aral
@DelilahTech @aral 😁 that was great, thanks.
Ok, I am not a History buff, but I was under the impression that Genghis Khan invaded China because he wanted China's civilization. Since they weren't welcome, he chose to take it. A bit like the Romans in reverse. The Romans would conquer other people to "expand civilization". Genghis didn't have civilization so he wanted to conquer those who had it. Maybe his conquests had the results you're suggesting, but commerce already existed since forever.