OptionalThe downsides of running a fediverse platform
The tankies?
OpenStarsThose who literally deny the existence of the massacre in the Tiananmen Square, claiming that “nobody was killed” (or far more rarely, unapologetically stating that if they were, then they deserved it). Basically far-left extremists that exist in a world of “alternative facts” just like conservatives, the common denominator being that and simping for authoritarian regimes.
Words like “consent” tend not to matter to those holding that ideology.
“Tankie” does not come from Tiananmen Square, that is a common misconception. The term “tankie” is 33 years older than the Tiananmen Square massacre.
It originated to describe people who supported the 1956 Soviet Union military intervention in Hungary. Stalin sent in a bunch of T-35 tanks to crush the Hungarian Revolution. He was successful, and thousands of people died in the process.
Ever since then, “tankie” has been used as a derogatory term against Stalinists, Marxist-Leninists, communists, and leftists in general.
CrisTheir name references a genocide, I doubt in good faith
No, the one with Tatar in their name defending the USSR. The Crimean Tatars were one of the genocides carried out by that nation
Ohhh. I think you may have gotten confused about where you’re replying to. I hadn’t even seen them, as they weren’t in the direct chain of comments I was replying in. I was thanking Krono for explaining that tankie came from violence carried out in the Soviet Union long before the tianamen square massacre, and so the name predated that particular act of violence
Anyway, I hope you have a lovely day :)
AmnesigenicAnything’s possible when you make shit up
Man makes mistake better dogpile fucking redditors ruined this platform
Lol fuck off loser
Why would you talk about yourself like that?
Weak, try harder
SomeonelolTo be fair, tanks seem to be a favored tool of these oppressive regimes. I’m personally not against communism, they have some good ideas like universal child care, guaranteed jobs, and housing (even though the latter may be considered sub-par by some). The problem comes when these fucking authoritarian cheerleaders come out and say communist governments were never oppressive.
Extremists like to use “alternative facts” or whatever other tactics achieve their goals. The means does not matter to them, only the ends, which they feel self-righteously justifies anything to achieve.
And then separately from that, gullible people also exist too. It is a bias that we all could fall prey to, though some of us seem more on guard against it than others.
(Tbf, many of those claiming those alternative facts are quite aware of just how nonfactual they actually are - they simply do not care as power, rather than correctness, is all that there is to them.)
AntiOutsideAktion(Tbf, many of those claiming those alternative facts are quite aware of just how nonfactual they actually are - they simply do not care as power, rather than correctness, is all that there is to them.)
This comment is dripping with unintentional irony. How many times have you been shown a picture of bicycles and pretended they were dead bodies?
The “oppression” you’re referring to is confiscating the properties of bourgeois capitalists and landlords, and imprisoning them and their accomplices in case of resistance. This confiscation and appropriation by the state id what makes free, universal care and other social benefits possible. It’s absurd to expect the features of communism without the policies behind them.
Also, the idea that authoritarian socialist governments just have a sadistic tendency to oppress and torture poor peasants is deeply unserious and a work of imagination created by western capitalist propaganda.
The oppression they’re referring to is shooting at protestors wanting democratic reforms. The comment before that literally gives an example, the least you could do is look into it.
First of all, socialist governments, like any other government, did not use force on protestors unless provoked by seditious behavior (i.e. coup attempt or political unrest), and only in proportion, which was the case in Hungary and in China. Stories about tanks crushing the bodies of protestors is fictitious. Also, the history of the Soviet Union, the PRC and other socialist polities is filled with workers protests that were left unaltered because it is a natural conpartment in the process of building socialism. Thus, the idea that freedom of expression were present under socialism (albeit with limitations), which leads me to my second point.
The claim that the riots in socialist states called for “democratic” reforms is the furthest thing from the truth. In the case of Hungary, the 1956 uprising was orchestrated by the Prime Minister in order to establish a capitalist multi-party system and restore the property of the big landowners after they were purged in the preceding decade and their industries nationalized by the state. If you consider this to be “democracy” then you cannot consider yourself to be a leftist.
I just realized what your name references, gtfo genocide enabler red fash belongs in the same pit as the regular fascists
Lol, I randomly generate all of my usernames.
With your beliefs I highly doubt that
mojofrododojowow how random.
Cry harder patriot
Don’t you have a Russian gas to buy?
Lol weak
unfreeradicalThousands were killed in the uprising.
The demands largely emphasized national sovereignty and labor conditions, not restoration of appropriated property to the bourgeoisie.
Justifying an invasion, an act of aggression over international borders, under the characterization of sedition is simply begging the question of the legitimacy of the established structure of governance.
By this point, Soviet governance was failing to produce improved conditions for workers, and much of the working class was disinterested in further personal sacrifice for a prolonged struggle against the capitalist core.
Sidyctism II.Ahh yes, the burgeois sailors of kronstadt.
300 communists were arrested and imprisoned by the Provisional Revolutionary Committee but hundreds of others escaped. The prison warden, Shustov, claimed to be an anarchist and planned to execute 23 Bolshevik prisoners, although the execution was prevented by the arrival of the Red Army.
The mutiny was supported by members of the White Army and British foreign minister George Curzon encouraged the Finnish government to intervene against the Bolsheviks.
On 17 March, the mutiny was defeated and Petrichenko ordered the crews of Sevastopol and Petropavlovsk to destroy their ships and go to Finland. The soldiers did not follow orders and arrested many members of the Provisional Revolutionary Committee. In May, Petrichenko went to Finland and joined the White Army under General Pyotr Wrangel.
Diva (she/her)The only mistake that Germany did in WW2 was not becoming allies with Ukrainians
the only mistake
good to know that you don’t think there was anything else that Nazi Germany did wrong. The extermination of millions of people was a good decision in your view.
This is about what I expected from someone who posts on meanwhileongrad.
I am a user on this collective platform as much as you are. You may block me if my genuine contributions seem to irk you.
Uh huh right, source me reality then, enlighten us that live in The Cave
Citations in an uncensored medium needed.
“Confiscating the properties of <insert populist excuse here>, imprisoning them and their accomplices in case of resistance. This confiscation and appropriation by the state is what makes <insert idealistic talking points that funny enough always seem to fall by the way side in terms of a priority to rounding up people yet is always the goal supposedly being reached> possible.”
This seems like an instantiation of neocolonialism adlibs. Is your name Trump or Netanyahu by any chance?
This isn’t the checkmate you think it is.
“Fascists brush their teeth twice a day. You also brush your teeth. That means you are a fascist!!!”
Do not omit the context from the general notion. I am speaking of bourgeois industrialists who exploit the working class, and not native populations with the right to sovereignty.
So no citations, just the same old regurgitated propaganda that has been in the library stands for decades. I think we’ve reached common ground, you recognize you are basically proposing:
“Confiscating the properties of <insert populist excuse here>, imprisoning them and their accomplices in case of resistance. This confiscation and appropriation by the state is what makes <insert idealistic talking points that funny enough always seem to fall by the way side in terms of a priority to rounding up people yet is always the goal supposedly being reached> possible.”
And I’m just pointing it out. You speak of <insert populist excuse here> that only easily materializing in the caricatures you have in your mind but which you would do your best bourgeois impersonation to apply liberally if you ever got the power to do so. This isn’t the checkmate you think it is, you are just wearing a different brand of rhetoric that just ends up devolving in a pretty similar way.
OBJECTION!This seems like an instantiation of neocolonialism adlibs.
Someone needs to tell Mohammed Mossadegh that he was doing neocolonialism when he nationalized the natural resources that had been stolen by British colonizers and that he’s exactly like Netanyahu for it. I guess the CIA was right to overthrow him, democracy be damned.
What an absolutely insane take.
ValmondExcept you’d not get that healthcare and the rest if you didn’t pay people off.
In theory it might seem fine, but in reality it was just a dictatorship, and quite a brutal one too.
Except you’d not get that healthcare and the rest if you didn’t pay people off.
eh docs and nurses are pretty fucking cool but don’t work for free. of course you’re going to pay people off, they need wages ffs
Communism = no currency. There doesn’t seem to be a whole lot of knowledge regarding communism in here. A bit of an echo chamber. It’s funny how so many can hate something so much without actually knowing what it is they’re hating. Ha.
…I’d prefer a single payer system where no one went without. Broke my nose while living in the UK and was impressed with their no bullshit system.
you can have democratic socialism of many flavors without going full on communism, and you’ll never get to communism from here, abject capitalism. I’d prefer denmark over…well, where has communism worked?
Like, I respect the medical professionals Cuba produces but would never want to live there.
You’re advocating for the “lesser evil” option without having a basic understanding of leftist ideology. It’s still capitalism, it’s still a terrible right winger framework.
you didn’t answer the question at all. call it whatever you want, I’d rather have something that I can see working - than something that I’ve never seen work. Unfettered capitalism is cancer, sure. But that’s not exclusive to capitalism - government without restraints usually is miserable - see the USSR.
if you can show me communism working I’m down to learn new things; but you can’t point at liberal social democracies and say “that’s still in the terrible right winger framework” when it’s functioning far better than the US or the communist countries I’ve seen.
Another data point would be great, but from my POV all I can see is left—(social democracies)—center-----right (capitalist fascism)
note there’s no (communist society) on that spectrum.
Communism has never been implemented. You’re unaware of what communism is, so how would you know anyways? Social Democracy Isn’t on the left side of the spectrum. There’s no such thing as a leftist that supports capitalism. Capitalism does not work without exploitation.
China is working towards communism, and the USSR made huge progress, all while at war with the west the entire time.
I’m busy reading and can’t be bothered to continue this conversation. Later.
ah there it is.
so it’s a utopian thing that’s never been accomplished, but we should throw out ‘known to work social democracy’ for never worked before but you’re just. SO. FUCKING. CERTAIN
you fucking oxygen thief cretin shitbag suckass motherfuckers are always so quick to tell everyone “tear it all down” but you don’t actually have JACK
FUCKING
SHIT
do you? squat. diddly fucking squat.
goddamn I can’t believe I wasted time expecting that maybe you had something valid up your sleeve.
I’m busy reading and can’t be bothered to continue this conversation. Later.
bro, there was no conversation, you fucking dolt
You libs sure are angry birds.
Anything’s possible when you make shit up
InternetCitizen2I’m personally not against communism, they have some good ideas like universal child care, guaranteed jobs, and housing (even though the latter may be considered sub-par by some).
Tankies never seem to get that that part is not being critized, but the subversive of the movement by authoritarians.
This is projection on three levels
First you’re projecting a lack of knowledge
Second you’re projecting basic social democratic policies onto socalism
And finally you’re projecting onto socalism the ‘subversive authoritarians’ that have done nothing but dismantle those policies while committing the worst atrocities in history around the world
And anyone who stands up to them (authority) gets called a tankie
The only good leftist is the one that votes for the BLUE genocidal drill-baby-drill rapist
The term mostly had been invoked by anti-authoritarian leftists derisively toward anyone who still supported the Soviet Union. In time, the usage generalized to apply broadly to authoritarian leftists, such as Marxist-Lenininsts (or Stalinists).
Now is it largely misused by liberals to designate anyone strongly critical of Western imperialism, which includes everyone from anarchists to campists.
I don’t think it is a common misconception, I think it’s pretty common knowledge (at least among the terminally online) that it started with the Hungarian Revolution.
It seems more common knowledge for people actually in Europe. Many people in the USA seem to have never really heard the word. Especially the younger generations (which since this is a memes community… does seem slightly relevant to your statement, as I would expect a broader populace here as opposed to a community dedicated to discussions of world-wide import).
CosmicTurtle0 [he/him]I have so many questions. I guess I never viewed as “tankie” as left.
Hell, I consider myself far-left to the point of being a progressive, almost to the point of being an anarchist.
But my reality is rooted in actual facts.
Tankies only call themselves as leftists.
And some places, like Hexbear, aren’t genuinely anything at all except people seeking “the dunk” - the appearance of winning an argument regardless of the reality of it (which requires a rigidly controlled echo chamber).
Now that I mention it, there are some striking parallels to lemmy.ml’s echo chamber effect as well…
The “look what you made me do” philosophy of tankies only claims to be leftist or progressive, while in reality whatever Russia, China, or North Korea does (including genocide) is okay, while anything done by the Western world (including exist) is not.
You are in the echonchamber though, and you just make shit up pretty much every time I see you post.
I’m an anarchist, you call everyone you don’t like tankie
Lol more like spout ignorant shit long enough and someone who knows better will show up to correct you