Mastodawn

mos_8502

🇨🇦

XWayland is a good thing. It shouldn’t be a stopgap, it should be the solution that gets maintained long term.

disorderlyf 1d ago

@mos_8502 I kind of assumed that's what Wayback was supposed to be, but since I've not heard much on that front since, I'm worried it's a half-baked solution for the things Xwayland struggles with still and that Freedesktop doesn't want to add to Wayland from X

R.L. Dane

🍵

1d ago

@mos_8502

What about Wayback, the compatibility layer for X11 window managers? That looks like a badly needed solution.

Cassandrich 1d ago

@rl_dane @mos_8502 It's the right solution given where we are.

Really the right solution would have been never having Wayland, just a new independent implementation of the X server with modern internals and no legacy XF86/Xorg cruft. But that's not what the people working on the relevant hardware interface stacks decided to do, so we make the best of what we have.

Yeah, how exactly did we get here??? lol

As I recall, the early Wayland devs were all or mostly frustrated X11 maintainers/devs, and yet they picked this solution which only serves Gnome and KDE well?!?

WHAT?!?

I mean, I'm 100% Wayland except for a single box (haven't tried #sway on #OpenBSD yet, so it's still #i3wm there), but it's still kind of odd where we've ended up.

And I still don't have a way of automatically typing emoji in KDE Wayland. wtype doesn't work in KDE (because of COURSE not), and kdotool doesn't type emojis for some reason.

Cassandrich 1d ago

@rl_dane @mos_8502 I don't know the history, but they picked the path that everyone in the "Linux on the desktop" crowd keeps repeating: copy every bad architectural idea you can from Windows, which you believed to be the pinnacle of perfection up through version N until Microsoft did something you disagreed with in version N+1 and made you decide you're now the champion of Linux.

This toot has no right being that accurate/insightful. XD

@rl_dane @dalias @mos_8502

Hunh, I use the pasma-emojier tool, but some people prefer to type them?

Current scuttlebut is this is the wayland alt.

https://github.com/ReimuNotMoe/ydotool

GitHub - ReimuNotMoe/ydotool: Generic command-line automation tool (no X!)

Generic command-line automation tool (no X!). Contribute to ReimuNotMoe/ydotool development by creating an account on GitHub.

GitHub

I use a cross-platform, cross-DE [emoji picker] which tries to handle the clipboard, typing (wtype/xdotool/kdotool), and the menu (rofi/wofi/fuzzel) on both X11 and Wayland.

Sorry, correction. I am using ydotool, not kdotool (which doesn't try to implement typing).
But for some reason, ydotool isn't able to type emojis:

rld@Intrepid:~$ ydotool type $'echo hello 😁 world\n'
echo hello  world
rld@Intrepid:~$ echo hello  world
hello world
rld@Intrepid:~$

?!? XD

Cookie monster!

@rl_dane @dalias @mos_8502 hunh same here, never noticed since I just paste.

The ability to have my emoji picker paste it in for me (on X11 and sway, at least) has really spoiled me. ;)

@rl_dane @dalias @mos_8502 supppose I could dig into it and instead of toast "Copied to Clipboard" it could ydotool key Alt-Tab & Ctrl-v

Adding a note to look deep into plasma-emojier

The problem is you can't assume what I'm pasting into. It may be a firefox window, or neovim in the terminal, or whatnot.

@rl_dane @dalias @mos_8502 can we not assume it was last window. My workflow is Super+. , choose, close, paste.

I would just be automating the last two with my mini post christmas fork.

My current workflow in Plasma (assuming I'm pasting into neovim in the terminal, which is what I'm doing most of the time) is:

hit escape
Super+.
type some text, like "laugh"
hit enter
hit "p" to paste

In sway or X11:

Stay in insert mode in nvim
Super+.
type some text
hit enter

@rl_dane @dalias @mos_8502 Ah yes, paste in terminal is almost never Ctrl-V.

khm 1d ago

I think the UI libraries are not the problem, and the idiotic state of graphics driver development is the problem. It's true of hardware in general, but it all shoves so much responsibility into the software that any stack, once developed, is effectively permanent. It's not possible to innovate when the hardware is designed to leverage last year's software, and next year's software can't work without last year's hardware. Our industry is really bad at deciding where abstraction should happen.

CC: @rl_dane@polymaths.social @mos_8502@studio8502.ca

Scott VE3QBZ 1d ago

@mos_8502 I don't know enough about the differences between a UI toolkit rendering on Wayland vs X11, but I agree XWayland is important and valuable.