Emily VelascoThese days I find myself constantly weighing my belief that the concept of intellectual property is wrong and anti-human vs. my belief that it's wrong for AI companies to be stealing everyone's work.
Aled;cd@ldcd yes, so true
David ForsythExactly. #WilhoitsLaw in full effect.
Jake von Slatt@MLE_online I seem to recall a study from a few years ago by economists that said an 18 month protection on IP optimized growth. That sounds about right to me, there's some incentive for innovation, but competition is preserved.
@vonslatt I believe in no protection at all regardless of what economists say it will do for growth
Anna Miriamsdochter@MLE_online I’d say they are perfectly coherent beliefs that both hinge on “anti-human”
DianeI think of it in terms of an intellectual commons.
Culture is the collective output of everyone participating in a society, and so there needs to be a balance the between the needs of individual artists and society as a whole.
Having a company roll up, install fences and slap prices on everything just because no one can stop them is infuriating.
@alienghic The problem is soon as you let one person put up a fence, then it becomes a debate over where the fences go and how big they can be, and then we end up with fences locking up almost everything.
No fences. Artists should make a living through working, not hoarding ideas.
More socialism so people who are good at writing keep getting paid works for me.
But until then, the various authors making interesting stories need some framework that gets them enough money to live on.
Exactly how to do that is a political problem
@alienghic While i would like to see us shift out of this hypercapitalistic hellscape we're living in, there is a long history of people doing art for the sake of doing art, even when they're not getting paid to do art.
They do.
Though if they're earning enough to live off of producing art they often make even more art.
Mostly I'd like people like Annalee Newitz or Charlie Stross to be able to produce more books.
For people writing full time it takes about six months to a year for them to write a new novel, kind of depending on what book length is in fashion.
fredy cosmoline 
@MLE_online same. increasingly i'm annoyed by most of the popular arguments about why AI is bad, even though i agree wholeheartedly that it is indeed bad
It's obvious now IP 'protections' never were intended to protect from theft *by* oligarchs.
They were intended to protect from theft *from* oligarchs.
@unsponsoredgeek i don't think that's obvious. The biggest beneficiaries of IP are the oligarchs
Sarah dreams of beans@MLE_online Yesssss. This is one reason I have been reading about Indigenous approaches to intellectual property and data sovereignty. Things like OCAP and the FAIR+CARE data principles emphasize responsible collective governance for community benefit, rather than copyright. Makes so much more sense to me than defending Disney's right to charge licensing fees
Greg Bell@MLE_online perfectly compatible imo: since our society has the concept of owning and valuing IP (wrong or not) and the society demands we make money by our labor to survive,
appropriating that IP upwards is wage theft
appropriating that IP upwards is wage theft
Alien software, human hardware@MLE_online the difference is that IP exists for you but not them.
Worst of both worlds.
Worst of both worlds.
@@MLE_online the difference is that IP exists for you but not them.
Worst of both worlds.
Worst of both worlds.
anubis2814@MLE_online writers at least can make a decent amount of money with a 12-25 year copyright. For patents, the second indisputably revolution hacienda because of you had a government contract, all patents would be open source. Unsure about other forms of art. What i do believe is that no for-profit corporation should own ip. Especially if they get any government contracts or subsides. We paid for that too help all of us
@MLE_online Basic if the statement, if IP exists, AI shouldn't be able to steal. Else if IP doesn't exist, ai can freely use all data
Rosy Maths@MLE_online @dx I feel this.