Ravensrod 🫖 🍰
Alexf24@ravensrod The USA has a thing or two to learn here, instead of treating them as criminals, or as one certain naïve and misguided First Lady said once upon a time: "Just say no".
Yeah. That worked.
Johns@alexf24 @ravensrod But then they wouldn't be able to use the law to create more slavery through the criminal system!!
Unredacted Epstein files now
BotAnix🌷🌿@ravensrod
That is indeed impressive. However, there are differences between Portugal and Germany.
Portugal is small (only 10.4 million inhabitants) and not a transit country in the heart of Europe. Despite its ports serving as transshipment points for drugs from Africa and South America, such successes cannot be directly applied to every other country.
That is indeed impressive. However, there are differences between Portugal and Germany.
Portugal is small (only 10.4 million inhabitants) and not a transit country in the heart of Europe. Despite its ports serving as transshipment points for drugs from Africa and South America, such successes cannot be directly applied to every other country.
Sven Slootweg, low-spoons mode ("still kinky and horny anyway")@Bot_Anix @ravensrod There are differences between every country. And yet public health, safety, mobility etc. policies in general almost always show near-identical results in different countries, as long as they are mildly adapted to local needs.
It's very easy to say "well it's different" as an excuse to not make a change, but this is just the same thing as Americans do when they argue "well transit and bikes couldn't work here because [insert bullshit reason]". And just like with that case, "well countries are different" is not a reason to keep doing the thing that we already know doesn't work instead of trying the new idea that has already found success elsewhere.
@joepie91 @ravensrod
It's very easy to say "well it's different" as an excuse to not make a change.
Yes, this is right. We're always allowed to make it better.
Li ~ Crystal System@Bot_Anix @ravensrod countries are different the cruelty and mistreatment of people that is systemically legitimized because they used drugs once is not ...
EQOr you could just do like the Swedish right wing extremist government. You go to a neighbour country that has solved the ciminality problem (Denmark and no they haven't) then select the one thing that fits your narrative that they tried (no matter if it was the thing they deemed didn't work or not) and implement it in your home country. In our case: 13-year olds in jail, and then you privatise the jails just like USA, profit!
@eq @Bot_Anix @ravensrod eh the only solution to the 'criminality probblem' is to stop having governments that can decide ransom shit is 'illegal' and declaring them as 'crimes' .. which also means their suddenly 'allowed to' treat people horribbly on purpose (like suddenly means its okay to abduct you off the streets throwing you into a cage and denying you basic rights) ..
but anyway..
Kid Mania@ravensrod
Legalization is not part of the program.
☠️ 🇺🇸 ☠️
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CIA_drug_trafficking_allegations
Legalization is not part of the program.
☠️ 🇺🇸 ☠️
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CIA_drug_trafficking_allegations
haaflife@ravensrod it hasn't worked. Not at all. I live in Portugal. Drugs are everywhere, deeply connected to the homelessness problem and out of control violent crime. it's a nightmare. It looks good on paper because crimes, overdoses and all things negative are chronically underreported. We're talking about one of the most corrupt, deeply dysfunctional countries in Europe. None of the counter measures (like therapy) are available in reality.
Professor_StevensThanks for the on-the-ground report. With so few trustworthy news sources left, this is how we're going to get the facts going forward.
@Professor_Stevens @ravensrod since I started living here a couple of years ago, I became fully paranoid about any sort of information like that: average time until an ambulance will reach you in Germany. Number of 30 year olds living with their parents in Italy. Number of smokers in Finnland.... What is real, what can you trust, and what is just reports being sugar-coated and facts not being reported?😵💫
Context is everything. As a lawyer, I get reminded all the time that, "America has three times as many lawyers per person as Japan." Yeah. It does. If you count people with licenses to go to court. In America, that's all lawyers. In Japan, that's only lawyers who try cases. "Office" lawyers never go to court, so they don't have that kind of license in Japan. But most American lawyers never go to court either. Count them all, and the numbers are about the same.
@Professor_Stevens @ravensrod context truly is everything. Unfortunately, it's the first thing that gets lost, it seems.
@Professor_Stevens @[email protected] @ravensrod so its the same as everywhere else (people still get harmed despite it being "illegal" because laws dont prevent things from happening just cause more harm when it does.): but they arent throwing you in prison for existing with drugs and dont legitimizing more harm to people who do them??
people using drugs isnt actually an issue of course theres gonna be some usage of it the difference is now you can do harm reduction, this really sounds like drug criminalization has gone away (always a good thing lol) but dehumanization of drug users hasn't,
@ravensrod just for clarification: I'm mentioning therapy because it was supposed to be the alternative to punishments for people with addictions. But it never manifested. People here are still left alone with their addiction, they often drift into crime and end up in prison anyway. It's a mess
Mitch Roseplease cite your source(s)
Gavin@ravensrod I believe in the UK this is a #ukgreenparty policy, so we just need more Green members and voters.
So, if you’re interested… https://join.greenparty.org.uk/ 😉
If your Republican friend suddenly says to you for the first time, "Addiction is really a disease," please be nice to them. Someone they love has just entered rehab.
jailandrade@ravensrod In Mexico if we try to do that then the country of the freedom will invade us, because they're the biggest consumers and also profit from gun sales
The Dog AlsoI want to note that the story is significantly more complicated than that, as evidenced by this 2021 paper studying the impact of Portugal's drug policy: https://substanceabusepolicy.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s13011-021-00394-7
20 years of Portuguese drug policy - developments, challenges and the quest for human rights - Substance Abuse Treatment, Prevention, and Policy
Portugal decriminalized the public and private use, acquisition, and possession of all drugs in 2000; adopting an approach focused on public health rather than public-order priorities. Arguing that the Portuguese Drug Policy Model has not proven influential enough to emancipate drug use from the stigma that associates it either with crime or pathology, this article critically discusses the developments and current challenges the Portuguese drug policy confronts, namely the growing diversity of drug use patterns observed in Portugal as well as in Europe. To this end, international and national legal instruments concerning drugs and official local data were analysed. Despite encouraging results, conclusions indicate that these policies are marked by contradictions and ambiguities that have permeated its history since the very beginning, and modest ambitions, particularly regarding the implementation of harm reduction measures. Moreover, the polemical Supreme Court judgment that reestablished, in 2008, drug use as a crime when the quantities at play exceeded those required for an average individual’s use for 10 days, might have impacted the landscape of drug use penalization. The last decade saw an increase of punitiveness targeted at drug users, including criminal sentences of jail terms. We finish with some suggestions that could be employed in the practical application of drug policy.
arg2d2@ravensrod ok sure, but what's the total market cap of the private prison companies in Portugal?
lemgandi@ravensrod Yeah, but where's the fun in *that*?
The USA has a cadre of politicians who lie in bed at night awake, fuming about all the people having more fun than they are.
Ambulocetus@ravensrod but if nobody is buying drugs, how will the CIA fund their clandestine operatives? If nobody goes to jail, how will the owners of the privatized prisons make more profit?
tillBut, but, but - drugs are EVIL!!! /s
Quirky George 🏳️🌈🏳️⚧️🇬🇧🇪🇺@ravensrod this image is so big I can't click under it to see what conversation it stimulated..
Kierkethumbs up convincingly@ravensrod that would never happen here, because we are secretly puritan calvinist inspired and prefer to let drug users die
Twotired@ravensrod Oregon tried something similar, and then repealed it, with the conventional wisdom being that it wasn’t working. I don’t know anything about why not, whether it was a failure of concept, of political will, or of implementation.
bgc@ravensrod it didn't work because users didn't get proper health support and they were left to their own.
They don't arrest yes, as they shouldn't, since drug use is a public health issue only. But users are still seen as criminals and are ostracized by the portuguese society (regarding harder drugs). Lack of information to population and trying to hide the issue was the cause for the huge increase in 80s.
My generation only learned by seeing what it did to previous one.
They don't arrest yes, as they shouldn't, since drug use is a public health issue only. But users are still seen as criminals and are ostracized by the portuguese society (regarding harder drugs). Lack of information to population and trying to hide the issue was the cause for the huge increase in 80s.
My generation only learned by seeing what it did to previous one.