Mastodawn

Mike 🇬🇧 🇪🇺

A pal of mine who is 80 was talking about his difficulty in selling his house and moving - due to his age.
His advice (unsolicited) was to think about housing and support while you can, and before you have to.

I'm 70 and feel pretty fit and 'with it' mentally - but it's a good warning that it might not always be the case.

So.... I've started thinking about a 5 year plan to slowly downsize and think about retirement housing complexes and developments.

Initial research shows these placrs to be an absolute minefield of extra charges and opaque fees, with no upfront clarity on how much these places cost their residents.

Anyone here in the UK with any relevant advice / information?
(UK boosts welcome)

#RetirementHousing #RetirementLiving #Retirement #OldAge

It is mostly legalised theft, as you say. I am thinking downstairs wet room, wide ramp and lodger.

@MikeFromLFE My mum moved from a flat with no support to this place in Hoylake (the company have a number of properties).

We looked at a several, but many (even quite expensive) are quite small rooms. This was the standout option and she was very happy there. They had a dining room where you could book / pay for lunch or dinner, food was okay and occasionally showed films in the evening.

https://kingsdale.co.uk/montrose-court-hoylake/

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Montrose Court, Hoylake - Kingsdale Retirement Living

Kingsdale Retirement Living - REDEFINING RETIREMENT LIVING

@MikeFromLFE @MikeFromLFE They had 24 hour warden cover with pull cords, not nursing support, it was like a first step on the support ladder.
The maintenance charges are now around £500 a month. When you sell they get 2% of the sale price and if it sits empty while being sold you still have to pay maintenance fees even if it is empty.

They're often not too bad a price as there is (inevitably) a regular turnover. We had the bathroom changed to a wet room, easier if such as this is already done.

Mike 🇬🇧 🇪🇺Nov 3

@ReCyclist Thanks for that info and personal experience.
It's good to know there are decent affordable places around

@MikeFromLFE I work in social care and continually meet people who've left it too late and now live in just one room with a commode and hospital bed, so your pal is correct, IMHO.
The costs of warden-controlled flats vary wildly, depending on the companies who run them, in my experience. There seems to be no industry standard.
That said, doing this job has taught me that it will be worth the expense, and I am planning to do exactly the same as you.

Mike 🇬🇧 🇪🇺Nov 3

@AnnaUK Many thanks for your insight and encouraging words.

Oliver Blanthorn Nov 3

@MikeFromLFE the devil is really in the details with retirement places

the leasehold stuff is mostly unregulated so you can get anything from pretty decent to almost outright scams

i think part of the problem is that when they're sold on the ex-residents are not usually around to give a review and the children selling the property have other stuff to worry about

i would personally consider renting instead. much more flexibility/clarity and nothing for your descendants to have to deal with

Mike 🇬🇧 🇪🇺Nov 3

@bovine3dom Thanks - your view on renting seems to align with a couple of articles I've skim-read.
It does seem more predictable.

Ann 🧡 (she/her)Nov 4

@MikeFromLFE As I understand it, the kind of retirement complexes you mention are entirely market driven rather than needs driven, and many aim for a luxury market niche.

Some of those I've seen adverts for I would describe as predatory because they create dependence for people without a true need that can only be fulfilled as long as you have the capital to pay the fees.

Cosigning the advice about renting rather than buying and LPAs.

Mike 🇬🇧 🇪🇺Nov 4

@agvbergin
Thank you.
Your point about creating dependence is well made, and I shall bear that in mind.

Charlotte Walker Nov 4

@MikeFromLFE @davep I think that is very sensible. Tom is nearly 70 and likes to think of our house as our “forever home” but realistically he already finds it difficult walking up the hill into town. As I can’t drive, if anything stopped him driving we’d be in trouble as public transport here is so bad and the bus stop and train station are, you’ve guess it, up the hill.

Oh well, who knows what we’ll do when I’m looking for a postdoctoral position. Our various offspring would like us to move back to England to be nearer the grandbabies, but right now Tom won’t hear of it.

Michael ᚋᚔᚉᚆᚓᚐᚂ Nov 4

@MikeFromLFE Everything I've learned from being a leaseholder in a block of flats (in the UK) is I never want to be a leaseholder again.

UK retirement homes seem to be all the usual leaseholder problems but turbo-charged with multiple restrictive covenants.

I read many horror stories of surviving children suffering costs from inheriting one; that is it costs them even after selling it. The damn thing costs the ‘beneficiaries’.

Mike 🇬🇧 🇪🇺Nov 4

@baoigheallain Thanks - yes the things you've mentioned are a real concern.
Renting appears to be the way to go, but that carries a whole different raft of issues.

SamuelJohnson Nov 4

@MikeFromLFE Contact Age Concern. They may have some useful information. You're right to be wary. Leaseholdknowledge.com has info on the scams in retirement leasehold, which is best avoided like the plague. Commonhold if you can find it, or rental otherwise is the way to go.

Mike 🇬🇧 🇪🇺Nov 4

@samueljohnson Thanks for the link.
Age Concern's website hedges its opinions - presumably in case of litigation, they may be more forthcoming in person.

SamuelJohnson Nov 4

@MikeFromLFE LEASE also has some advice

https://www.lease-advice.org/advice-guide/leasehold-retirement-housing/

The malpractices are endless, from outright fraud (search Cirrus Peverel), to govt making token reforms to keep donations flowing into Tory coffers

https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/research-briefings/sn05994/

Retirement leasehold is a great way to destroy any possible residual children's inheritance.

Leasehold Retirement Housing - The Leasehold Advisory Service

This guide is for older people living in retirement housing schemes who are leaseholders of their property with information on the various procedures available to remedy problems with the management of the scheme and legal rights as a leaseholder.

The Leasehold Advisory Service

Mike 🇬🇧 🇪🇺Nov 4

@samueljohnson Thanks!
It looks like a monster minefield! Increasingly it looks like renting is preferable, but that's not without a whole raft of other issues.
I think I might just get a tent! 😆

SamuelJohnson Nov 4

@MikeFromLFE A very common occurrence is for someone to downsize from a house to a leasehold flat in a retirement community then, at some point, need to go to a nursing home (costly). The service charges on the flat still have to be paid and then exit fees (a % of the value) add a kick at the end. Worst case: flat sale is needed to pay for care and flat ends up selling at massive loss. The very worst kind of tenure.

Alfred Chow - Maker of Things Nov 5

@MikeFromLFE
We have discussed this with MiL recently, and I have discussed it with my parents when I moved them into my granny flat for their retirement.

I wouldn't recommend buying into any of the retirement schemes. If you can't stay at home, then look at rental in a sheltered accommodation. You can leave at any time and move into greater or lesser support when you need. You also know what the rent and service charges are, and what support you are entitled to to help fund it.

Ideally, stay at home and convert and adapt in advance of need. Your home will sell regardless, and will always have value unlike buying into a retirement home scheme.

When my Mum dies, Sue and I will move with this in mind, though it will be a small house or bungalow in rural Wales, with some land and adaptations.
A ramp to the front door will help with getting the mobility tractor inside! 😉

Mike 🇬🇧 🇪🇺Nov 5

@Maker_of_Things Thanks - that's a really useful perspective.